QDRO filed 19 years later

[Guest 1DTM1]

Legally seperated 6/29/91, divorce final 2/26/93 in California. The ex waited till 2000 to file her first QDRO attempt. Was rejected 2-3 times and then she let it slide till this year. She was rejected 4-5 times more till this last one. The QDRO that was "Preapproved" by Hewitt shows the date to be used for the account balance to be split is 1/1/2002! The QDRO is in the divorce papers which state a 50/50 split of the account balance as of the date of seperation 6/29/91.

1) Is this legal?

Now for the sticky parts.... I hired in to GTE in 1980, they handled the "Savings and Investment Plan (401K) in house. In 1993 they turned the plan over to Hewitt to manage. In 2000 Bell Atlantic bought GTE (they termed it a "merger") and thus Verizon was born. Not sure of the date when the plan was moved to Fidelity but believe it was 2000. I have called the Verizon Benefit Center, Hewitt, and Fidelity. I have been told by one or another that "... only have records back to 2002", "... only have records back to 2000", "... we have records back to 1993 but they are stored on microfiche or tape at a data warehouse". I requested a search for the records, I was told by the rep I would either receive a call back if nothing was found or the records in the mail. Have received nada, when I called back several weeks later they showed the items had been closed with nothing found. They also told me they are only required to keep records for seven years. The difference between the amount in my account as of 1991 and 2002 is tens of thousands of dollars. I will be seeking legal counsel tomorrow.

2)Is there a way to force a though search for the records? Maybe a subpoena? or....

Reading elsewhere in regards to this it was mentioned they should/could have quarterly balence info, I hope.

I am really perplexed as to why when a legal claim or motion is filed against an account (though not accepted at the time, granted), that it would not automaticly trigger a retention of account data perminately. In fact sense the law states (as I read/understand it) there is no statute of limitation when a QDRO can be filed, it does not make sense they only have to save seven years of past info. Heck, my ex or any forward thinking ex could wait and file when the results would benefit them the most! This can't be right. Any help, suggestions, ideas would be much appreciated. Been looking for days for any laws that pertain to the dates that are supposed to be used in a QDRO, can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance for your time and response, Dan

[K2retire]

I am really perplexed as to why when a legal claim or motion is filed against an account (though not accepted at the time, granted), that it would not automaticly trigger a retention of account data perminately. In fact sense the law states (as I read/understand it) there is no statute of limitation when a QDRO can be filed, it does not make sense they only have to save seven years of past info. Heck, my ex or any forward thinking ex could wait and file when the results would benefit them the most! This can't be right. Any help, suggestions, ideas would be much appreciated. Been looking for days for any laws that pertain to the dates that are supposed to be used in a QDRO, can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance for your time and response, Dan

It's undoubtably frustrating. But why didn't you keep those quarterly statements, since you also knew about those old DRO filings? After all you have more at stake than the plan's recordkeeper does.

[Bird]

Participants and (ex)spouses seem to think that "someone else" can determine "benefits earned between ab/cd/efgh and ij/kl/mnop." Sometimes it's more art than science and sometimes it is impossible. That's not really the Plan Administrator's job. Sometimes the PA will have records to go back and do that extra work, and sometimes not.

Long story short; keep trying to get the records, failing that, I think you'll have to reach an agreement on a proper amount based on best estimates.

[masteff]

Keep in mind that after, I think, either 6 months or a year, the employer's "notice" that a QDRO is being pursued goes stale and they quit having to restrict the account and such. They have no way to know that you didn't settle outside the plan.

[Guest bobolink]

It is pretty common for QDROs to be filed long after the fact since lawyers and parties lose interest post-judgment. Unless you don't keep any records, you should have your divorce file and in it the list of assets you prepared for your lawyer. You may even have a concurrent statement.

[mbozek]

Legally seperated 6/29/91, divorce final 2/26/93 in California. The ex waited till 2000 to file her first QDRO attempt. Was rejected 2-3 times and then she let it slide till this year. She was rejected 4-5 times more till this last one. The QDRO that was "Preapproved" by Hewitt shows the date to be used for the account balance to be split is 1/1/2002! The QDRO is in the divorce papers which state a 50/50 split of the account balance as of the date of seperation 6/29/91.

1) Is this legal?

Now for the sticky parts.... I hired in to GTE in 1980, they handled the "Savings and Investment Plan (401K) in house. In 1993 they turned the plan over to Hewitt to manage. In 2000 Bell Atlantic bought GTE (they termed it a "merger") and thus Verizon was born. Not sure of the date when the plan was moved to Fidelity but believe it was 2000. I have called the Verizon Benefit Center, Hewitt, and Fidelity. I have been told by one or another that "... only have records back to 2002", "... only have records back to 2000", "... we have records back to 1993 but they are stored on microfiche or tape at a data warehouse". I requested a search for the records, I was told by the rep I would either receive a call back if nothing was found or the records in the mail. Have received nada, when I called back several weeks later they showed the items had been closed with nothing found. They also told me they are only required to keep records for seven years. The difference between the amount in my account as of 1991 and 2002 is tens of thousands of dollars. I will be seeking legal counsel tomorrow.

2)Is there a way to force a though search for the records? Maybe a subpoena? or....

Reading elsewhere in regards to this it was mentioned they should/could have quarterly balence info, I hope.

I am really perplexed as to why when a legal claim or motion is filed against an account (though not accepted at the time, granted), that it would not automaticly trigger a retention of account data perminately. In fact sense the law states (as I read/understand it) there is no statute of limitation when a QDRO can be filed, it does not make sense they only have to save seven years of past info. Heck, my ex or any forward thinking ex could wait and file when the results would benefit them the most! This can't be right. Any help, suggestions, ideas would be much appreciated. Been looking for days for any laws that pertain to the dates that are supposed to be used in a QDRO, can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance for your time and response, Dan

Your lawyer needs to discuss with the plan admin how far back the plan will go to reconstruct the investment performance of your account to determine the ex's interest in the plan assets. Plans are not required to go back and reconstruct investment returns for 19 years especially when the ex spouse has delayed submitting a DRO. Most plans will only go back 1 to 3 years because of the administrative burdens or will require that the parties pay for an accountant to reconstruct the returns (assuming records can be located). Under DOL rules the plan can charge the participant for the costs of a QDRO which could be thousands of $.

Better solution is for you and your ex to come to an agreement as to her interest in your plan assets as of today and ask to have the state ct approve that amount as her interest in the plan under the DRO which will be submitted to the plan admin.

[Guest 1DTM1]

I am really perplexed as to why when a legal claim or motion is filed against an account (though not accepted at the time, granted), that it would not automaticly trigger a retention of account data perminately. In fact sense the law states (as I read/understand it) there is no statute of limitation when a QDRO can be filed, it does not make sense they only have to save seven years of past info. Heck, my ex or any forward thinking ex could wait and file when the results would benefit them the most! This can't be right. Any help, suggestions, ideas would be much appreciated. Been looking for days for any laws that pertain to the dates that are supposed to be used in a QDRO, can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance for your time and response, Dan

It's undoubtably frustrating. But why didn't you keep those quarterly statements, since you also knew about those old DRO filings? After all you have more at stake than the plan's recordkeeper does.

Thanks, that helps..................

[Guest 1DTM1]

Participants and (ex)spouses seem to think that "someone else" can determine "benefits earned between ab/cd/efgh and ij/kl/mnop." Sometimes it's more art than science and sometimes it is impossible. That's not really the Plan Administrator's job. Sometimes the PA will have records to go back and do that extra work, and sometimes not.

Long story short; keep trying to get the records, failing that, I think you'll have to reach an agreement on a proper amount based on best estimates.

I understand, it was my ignoriance of the law and proccess that did me in. Am in the proccess of getting an legal representation. My amazement (though I should'nt be) is about the statute of limitations never runs out for filing a QDRO but the records it's based on has a short "shelf" life. They should be changed to match to prevent this sort of thing. Thanks for the response, Dan.

[Guest 1DTM1]

Legally seperated 6/29/91, divorce final 2/26/93 in California. The ex waited till 2000 to file her first QDRO attempt. Was rejected 2-3 times and then she let it slide till this year. She was rejected 4-5 times more till this last one. The QDRO that was "Preapproved" by Hewitt shows the date to be used for the account balance to be split is 1/1/2002! The QDRO is in the divorce papers which state a 50/50 split of the account balance as of the date of seperation 6/29/91.

1) Is this legal?

Now for the sticky parts.... I hired in to GTE in 1980, they handled the "Savings and Investment Plan (401K) in house. In 1993 they turned the plan over to Hewitt to manage. In 2000 Bell Atlantic bought GTE (they termed it a "merger") and thus Verizon was born. Not sure of the date when the plan was moved to Fidelity but believe it was 2000. I have called the Verizon Benefit Center, Hewitt, and Fidelity. I have been told by one or another that "... only have records back to 2002", "... only have records back to 2000", "... we have records back to 1993 but they are stored on microfiche or tape at a data warehouse". I requested a search for the records, I was told by the rep I would either receive a call back if nothing was found or the records in the mail. Have received nada, when I called back several weeks later they showed the items had been closed with nothing found. They also told me they are only required to keep records for seven years. The difference between the amount in my account as of 1991 and 2002 is tens of thousands of dollars. I will be seeking legal counsel tomorrow.

2)Is there a way to force a though search for the records? Maybe a subpoena? or....

Reading elsewhere in regards to this it was mentioned they should/could have quarterly balence info, I hope.

I am really perplexed as to why when a legal claim or motion is filed against an account (though not accepted at the time, granted), that it would not automaticly trigger a retention of account data perminately. In fact sense the law states (as I read/understand it) there is no statute of limitation when a QDRO can be filed, it does not make sense they only have to save seven years of past info. Heck, my ex or any forward thinking ex could wait and file when the results would benefit them the most! This can't be right. Any help, suggestions, ideas would be much appreciated. Been looking for days for any laws that pertain to the dates that are supposed to be used in a QDRO, can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you in advance for your time and response, Dan

Your lawyer needs to discuss with the plan admin how far back the plan will go to reconstruct the investment performance of your account to determine the ex's interest in the plan assets. Plans are not required to go back and reconstruct investment returns for 19 years especially when the ex spouse has delayed submitting a DRO. Most plans will only go back 1 to 3 years because of the administrative burdens or will require that the parties pay for an accountant to reconstruct the returns (assuming records can be located). Under DOL rules the plan can charge the participant for the costs of a QDRO which could be thousands of $.

Better solution is for you and your ex to come to an agreement as to her interest in your plan assets as of today and ask to have the state ct approve that amount as her interest in the plan under the DRO which will be submitted to the plan admin.

Well talking to the ex is out of the question at this time due to history. I am getting legal help and one of the options he mentioned was to submit my own QDRO based on "an equitable distribution of assets" based on what information I can get when I have my day day in court. Barring some rubber stamping clerck getting it first, as has happened. Then that sets up a whole new set of problems. No offense ment to any court clerks out there. Thank you for your response, it was much in line with what the attorney told me. Please feel free if you come up with anything else, Dan

[Guest 1DTM1]

It is pretty common for QDROs to be filed long after the fact since lawyers and parties lose interest post-judgment. Unless you don't keep any records, you should have your divorce file and in it the list of assets you prepared for your lawyer. You may even have a concurrent statement.

The divoce was done though a legal service that does the paper work and filings. Nothing was contested at the time and no lawyers were used. I did't know this was common, all the more reason they should make the statute of limitations match for the records and the QDRO.

[mbozek]

Participants and (ex)spouses seem to think that "someone else" can determine "benefits earned between ab/cd/efgh and ij/kl/mnop." Sometimes it's more art than science and sometimes it is impossible. That's not really the Plan Administrator's job. Sometimes the PA will have records to go back and do that extra work, and sometimes not.

Long story short; keep trying to get the records, failing that, I think you'll have to reach an agreement on a proper amount based on best estimates.

I understand, it was my ignoriance of the law and proccess that did me in. Am in the proccess of getting an legal representation. My amazement (though I should'nt be) is about the statute of limitations never runs out for filing a QDRO but the records it's based on has a short "shelf" life. They should be changed to match to prevent this sort of thing. Thanks for the response, Dan.

The s/l for enforcement of QDROs under ERISA is subect to the same limitation that applies for benefit claims which is the most appropariate state law that is similar to your claim. For example division of pension benefits in a divorce is usually incorporated in a divorce decree which is a judgment. Most states have a S/l for enforcement of judgments. However, state courts are reluctant to deny the ex spouse's claim because of the passage of time. You may want to assert the doctrine of latches which is anm equitable remedy which denies the claim of a party because of an unreasonabl long delay which results in a detriment to the defendant. In your case your ex's failure to haver her claim for your benefits determined for 19 years has created a detriment to you in that you cannot determine what is your share of the pension. Latches is a complicated doctrine and you may have to bring an action in federal court to enforce it.