Final 5500 not marked final

[Guest cbclark]

Good afternoon all. I love a thicket of crazy. Not really but here we go again.

Client terminated a profit sharing plan in 2006 and distributed all the assets. Unsigned form in our file indicates FINAL box was checked on the 5500. FreeERISA shows no final box being marked. No forms filed after PY 2006. It was PN 001.

Client has a 401(k) and DB plan, both if which received extension letters for this cycle's 5500. Timley filed 5558s and so on.

The profit sharing plan ALSO got an extension letter, even though a request for one was not filed by our office. So now PN 001 is back in play, sort of, with the IRS.

I am thinking we need to file under voluntary compliance with DOL to correct the final filing to show FINAL back in the mists of time for the profit sharing plan, and do it before the extended due date for the current 5500. And then pray that the IRS does not go looking for the 001 filing for 2010 (and perhaps backwards).

Any better idea? I suspect a processing glitch (no, really?) but an IRS glitch as we all know can lead to a TPA's worst nightmare. Thanks in advance for your good ideas.

[Bill Presson]

Why can you not file an amended return at this point and check the final box?

[Guest cbclark]

Thanks Bill. We had been batting that around too but we ran into the brick wall of what if the DOL wants the intervening years' forms, even though there was no plan, no assets, no participants. We are split on the topic, some saying amend the one form and be done, others saying go through the compliance hoops. Your reply gets put in the "amend bucket;" we will tally them all later and announce the winner.....

[chc93]

Some comments... I recall filing final 5500's with the "final" box checked, but FreeERISA doesn't show the "final" box checked. All other information was correct. I just checked one plan that terminated in 2008. The 5500 we filed (we file the signed 5500's with the IRS from our office for most plans) and the "final" box was checked. On FreeERISA, the "final" box is not checked. No inquiries from IRS. So I don't think FreeERISA is a good source as far as checking for the "final" box. In your case, if your unsigned copy has the "final" box checked, and FreeERISA has the 5500, I would expect everything to be fine for that plan. But, the approved extension for that plan is curious.

Also, you might try calling the DOL/EBSA Public Disclosure Room. I recently called to check on a final 5500 we filed, and the person I spoke with actually looked for and got the 5500 in hand and confirmed the filing. The concern was that we filed a final 5500 for 2009 using the 2008 form on paper before 12/31/09 as allowed, so the 2009 5500 was not on FreeERISA and not on DOL/EFAST. I think it took a couple of days, but the person was very helpful.

[Guest cbclark]

Thanks so much chc93. I had wondered about the possibilty of some data not making it onto Free ERISA. I suppose someone could sit on the phone and wait for a kind DOL soul to dig up the form! I think we are going to waste some time tomorrow sitting on hold with the IRS to inquire about the extension that was granted and not requested. A totally Friday sort of job I can see now.....thanks again.

[Bill Presson]

Some comments... I recall filing final 5500's with the "final" box checked, but FreeERISA doesn't show the "final" box checked. All other information was correct. I just checked one plan that terminated in 2008. The 5500 we filed (we file the signed 5500's with the IRS from our office for most plans) and the "final" box was checked. On FreeERISA, the "final" box is not checked. No inquiries from IRS. So I don't think FreeERISA is a good source as far as checking for the "final" box. In your case, if your unsigned copy has the "final" box checked, and FreeERISA has the 5500, I would expect everything to be fine for that plan. But, the approved extension for that plan is curious.

Also, you might try calling the DOL/EBSA Public Disclosure Room. I recently called to check on a final 5500 we filed, and the person I spoke with actually looked for and got the 5500 in hand and confirmed the filing. The concern was that we filed a final 5500 for 2009 using the 2008 form on paper before 12/31/09 as allowed, so the 2009 5500 was not on FreeERISA and not on DOL/EFAST. I think it took a couple of days, but the person was very helpful.

+1

Excellent post! Very helpful and very specific.

[Guest cbclark]

It is storming today so what better day for sitting on hold with the IRS? I was on hold for 32 minutes. It is nice that they have the soothing background music to keep the taxpayer's head from exploding...The agent I spoke with did not have the capability to find the actual 5558 (if indeed there was on) and if it was found, it would not reveal much as there is no signature line. She recommeded we or the client send a letter to the Ogden UT mailing address explaining that no request for extension was sought, no extension was needed, that no form would be filed, and to request that the IRS update the records. So that is what we will do.

Department of Treasury

Internal Revenue Service

Ogden UT 84201-0075

In three or four years, when we get a response, I will let you all know the result! Thanks for all the earlier help/ideas. We are fence sitting about the accuracy of the FreeERISA form for the time being. Which means we are going to do nothing for a bit regarding the "yes the FINAL box was checked, no the FINAL box was not checked" issue. Have a good weekend.

[pmacduff]

my two cents FWIW:

I've had the same experience as chc93. I have had many final returns where I have the hard copy in hand and the "final return" box is checked.

But when viewed on Freeerisa the "final" check in the box does not show. Never had any issues....

[jpod]

Exact same thing happened to a client a couple of weeks ago (and I too have seen it many times). I responded to the IRS warning letter with a copy of the 5500 with final return box checked. Any bets on how many times I have to do this before somebody at IRS actually reads my correspondence?

[Guest cbclark]

Nope not gonna take that bet. Per another thread I think it was Sieve who said he had to cut the circular letter/response/threat/letter/response cycle with phone conversations....Good luck!