emmetttrudy Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Self-employed doctor has a DB plan and DC plan, no employees. He took a loan out of the 401k Plan on 7/1/2011 for $50,000 and just repayed the entire thing. Now he is terminating the 401k Plan but keeping the DB Plan. Does his loan from the 401k Plan limit the amount of loan he can take from the DB plan after the 401k Plan is terminated? Does the $50,000 threshold apply to each plan or the combination of the two?
Lou S. Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 72(p)(2)(D)(ii) all plans of an employer (determined after the application of such subsections) shall be treated as 1 plan. I would say you have a $50,000 loan under the 12 month look back until at least 7/1/2012 and could not take a new full $50,000 loan until 12 months after the date of final payment.
four01kman Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Loans generally are not allowed under defined benefit plans. (: Jim Geld
SoCalActuary Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Loans generally are not allowed under defined benefit plans. (: Really not a helpful comment. Start with the original premise, and your comment becomes irrelevant.
AndyH Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Loans generally are not allowed under defined benefit plans. (: Really not a helpful comment. Start with the original premise, and your comment becomes irrelevant. Also not true,
four01kman Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 The issue presented was after the 401k plan is terminated, what limitations were there on the amount of a loan from the defined benefit plan. I will repeat my answer: generally participant loans are not available in defined benefit plans. Jim Geld
AndyH Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 The issue presented was after the 401k plan is terminated, what limitations were there on the amount of a loan from the defined benefit plan. I will repeat my answer: generally participant loans are not available in defined benefit plans. From where do you get this conclusion? Are you stating that a DB plan cannot be amended (if necessary) to allow for a participant loan?
emmetttrudy Posted November 4, 2011 Author Posted November 4, 2011 In my experience loans are typically offered more often in 401k Plans as opposed to DB Plans. But that's certainly not the issue here. The DB Plan in this instance does allow for loans, and even if it didn't it can easily be amended to allow for a loan.
SoCalActuary Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 The issue presented was after the 401k plan is terminated, what limitations were there on the amount of a loan from the defined benefit plan. I will repeat my answer: generally participant loans are not available in defined benefit plans. But your general comment is not helpful in this question. Most large DB plans do not allow loans. Many small DB plans do not allow loans. But the original post was about a plan that does allow loans. Here's your analogy. Most Chinese are not baseball players. But so what. Those who play are still subject to the rules.
frizzyguy Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 I think we got off topic, are loans in a DB plan effected by loans from another plan? Now I'm curious. And not to pile on but loans are not as uncommon from a DB plan as you might think, you just don't see them. I did a wee bit of research and I believe that all plans are aggregated for plan loan rules. I think that they fall under IRC 72(p)(4). I hope this helps. IMHO
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