8955-ssa

[JKW]

Is the code 'd' on the 8955-SSA 'optional'? I have seen some information online regarding this but the Instructions for the form do not indicate so. Thanks.

[Tom Poje]

the instructions indicate:

Use Form 8955-SSA to report information about separated participants with deferred vested benefits under the plan. Report participants who have a deferred vested benefit under the plan and who:

separated from service covered by the plan;

were reported as deferred vested participants on another plan's filing if their benefits were transferred (other than in a rollover) to the plan during the covered period;

previously were reported under the plan but have been paid out or are no longer entitled to those deferred vested benefits; or

previously were reported under the plan but whose information is being corrected.

I think the confusion is the language which says:

separated participants with deferred vested benefits

since someone who has been paid out has no vested benefit you wouldn't think they are inlcuded.

you really want to report peopel as a D, because that tells the SSA to delete these off the list.

otherwise, someday they will send the people a letter indicating the person might have a benefit. then they will contact you if you are still running the plan and you will have to figure out if they were really paid out, bleh, bleh, bleh.

.............

as to whether to include the D folks on the totals page, (line 6 and 7), well if you are filing electronically you have to include them. if it's a paper filing I guess put down for the totals what you feel comfortable. we filed everything electronically, all SSAs for all plans in one big batch.

[JKW]

Great Thanks!

I have one other question, if a plan terminates and all participants are paid out. Do we have do go back and do a "D" for all participants who have ever been reported? Or is there an easy way to say all participants have been paid out therefore they should be removed from the SSA database?

Thank you.

[Tom Poje]

no easy way I know. If someone was previously reported as an A, I would report them as a D.

well actually, I can generate a report off the system I use to pull name, soc and automatically code as a D and then import into the SSA, so it is pretty easy if you have that capability.

[ESOP Guy]

the instructions indicate:

as to whether to include the D folks on the totals page, (line 6 and 7), well if you are filing electronically you have to include them. if it's a paper filing I guess put down for the totals what you feel comfortable. we filed everything electronically, all SSAs for all plans in one big batch.

Tom:

You may have answered this already, so sorry if a repeat. I did a short search to see if it is a repeat.

Our understanding of the electronic filing requirement for the Form 8955-SSA is the client is suppose to still sign a paper copy even if you file for them electronically. The culture around here is one we would need proof they have signed before we file electronically. How do you know they signed the paper copy, or is the culture around your place of work one where if you merely send the paper copy to the client that was enough (you guys assume they signed the copy sent to them) to do the electronic filing?

[chc93]

my comment: in our office, we've asked clients to fax the signed first page to us before we file electronically.

[Tom Poje]

ft william has the following guideline

Electronic Filing Process Requires No Signature

Paper Form 8955-SSAs must have the plan administrator and plan sponsor sign the bottom of page 1. However, if the plan administrator and plan sponsor are the same person, then only the plan administrator need sign. At this time, there are no signing requirements to e-sign. However, it is good practice to send the completed form (on paper or pdf) and ask clients to review, sign and keep a paper copy for their records.

................

when the client files the 5500 electronically, do you also request a copy of the signed copy or do you assume they printed and signed a copy and keep it in their records?

[ESOP Guy]

ft william has the following guideline

Electronic Filing Process Requires No Signature

Paper Form 8955-SSAs must have the plan administrator and plan sponsor sign the bottom of page 1. However, if the plan administrator and plan sponsor are the same person, then only the plan administrator need sign. At this time, there are no signing requirements to e-sign. However, it is good practice to send the completed form (on paper or pdf) and ask clients to review, sign and keep a paper copy for their records.

................

when the client files the 5500 electronically, do you also request a copy of the signed copy or do you assume they printed and signed a copy and keep it in their records?

Tom to be clear my question was just a question not a chanllenge. I wish I could convince people here to use something like the Fire system to do these things electronically. I can't find quickly what gave us the idea that a signature from the client has to be had before you file using Fire or another system.

But to our way of thinking IF signature is needed then you might as well send the paper form to the client and have them sign it and mail it in.

So it sounds like the answer is to do more research on this topic with the IRS.

To answer your 5500 question with Pension Report we can know if the client signed with a PIN and we get the feedback if the DOL accepts it as valid. So to our way of thinking that is a valild electronic signature. We do recommend they do a wet signature. If you take the position that the thinking around here is a bit inconsistent I might agree with you.

Like I said at the beginning none of this is a chanllenge. I am looking for a better way to do things. And to me getting to a point were we can comfortably file all these silly forms electronically in one or two big batches sounds better then sending all these paper forms we are currently doing.

[BG5150]

We do recommend they do a wet signature.

I don't recommend my clients sign a paper copy of the 5500; I tell them they must do it. Says so right in the instructions.

And, because we are not filing electronically this year, all our clients must sign them. We are asking for signed copies for our records.

Not sure about future years.

[Tom Poje]

ESOP guy :

I didn't interpret your comments as a challenge. sorry if it sounded like that.

when we send the hard copy to the client we tell them they should sign and keep a copy in their records, but we don't follow up and ask they send back proof they actually signed. I believe we also included "DON"T SEND THIS TO THE IRS.WE DID THAT FOR YOU" or maybe it was something like "please please we beg you dont send this to the IRS. simply sign and bury it in the drawer with the 5500 you pronted and signed.

[pmacduff]

Yup - that's what we do...send the paper copy to the client, tell them to review, sign and file with their records and that we have filed electronically.

When this process first began - I sent each client the hard copy, told them to review, sign and file the copy and then contact me via phone or email to tell me to go ahead and file electronically.

Now that I'm caught up, I am sending the 8955 SSA forms with the 5500 forms with the same notation.

Most of my clients will not file anything unless I include an envelope or explicit instructions where to mail, so I don't think I have to worry that they will mail the hard copy in error!