retroactive annuity start date

[Gary]

A one participant plan owner is age 65 and has been at 415 dollar limit.

NRA is 62 and plan allows for in service dist.

plan allows for Retroactive ASD.

If plan were to terminate now does it seem reasonable to have RASD at age 62 where the distribution is essentially

= missed payments (with interest) for three years plus pv of future benefits at age 65?

The above of course is much more than simply pvab of future payments, since at 415 limit.

If plan did not provide for in service dist and/or RASD then I dont think that amending the plan now to provide those things would work. That is, I believe it had to be in the plan provisions at the time he reached age 62 or whatever the RASD is.

thanks

[SoCalActuary]

You have issues with the guidance in the 415 regs, since you are suggesting taking 3 years of retroactive payments.

You also may have issues with the suspension of benefits rules and participant notification.

That said, I think you are out of luck unless you get a PLR.

But the alternative is to put the excess assets into a replacement plan and see if that helps.

[Gary]

another aspect on this subject.

say a participant is age 65 with AB = 16,250 at 12/31/11 (at 415 limit)

can he elect RASD as of age 62 and commence receiving 16,250 as of 1/1/12 with a back make-up payment for three years of missed payments?

In this case he is receiving the 415 annuity retroactively.

The question as it relates to RASD regs is: does this exceed 415? that is as of 1/1/12 is an actuarially equivalent annuity determined, that is of course above 16,250 due to make-up payment and thus would be more than 415? or is the fact that all payments are no more than 415 limit, but just starting at earliest date permitted?

this is a case of application of the RASD reg

as a lump sum i think it is clear that payment cannot exceed pv of 16,250 using age 65.

thanks