First year 5500 filing

[Hypothetically]

Hypothetically - A plan is adopted effective 01/01/12 and never files the report for 2012 (the first year). How does IRS ever catch wind of this?

[Bird]

So...is this an ongoing plan, and the idea is to file for 2013 as if it's the first year? Then you or someone would have to committ fraud. You could probably get away with it if that's how you want to operate. The only way they catch it is if they audit it, and check the document vs. the returns that are in fact filed.

[ETA Consulting LLC]

If you're speeding, how do you get caught? Only in the event the police catches you on radar (and possibly some other methods). The question is, was, and always will be, what will happen to you if you get caught; and is that a price you are willing and able to pay. Income tax evasion (abusive tax avoidance schemes) are illegal and punishable by IRS penalties and prison time. That should be empasized in any 'hypothetical' situation in order to avoid being perceived as giving advice on how to game the system.

Good Luck!

[david rigby]

Who says the 5500 for 2012 was not made? If you do it now, it's just late.

BTW, is a 2012 filing required? If it's a 5500-EZ, there might be an exemption.

[BG5150]

Were there assets?

[ESOP Guy]

So you only obey the law if you think you are going to be caught not obeying it?

I mean there are these great late filing programs that limit the fine. No one likes paying fines but that seems like a better route then just ignoring it.

I had a boss that was famous for saying, "problems never get better by just waiting for them to go away."

[Andy the Actuary]

I will tell them!

[Guest LauraVanSteeter]

Actually, I recently had a plan receive a letter from the IRS stating that they were claiming contributions to a 401(k) on the W-2 forms, yet no record of a Form 5500 could be located.

[JKW]

I have a similar question - for a plan that didn't file their 2012 5500 (it was their 1st year) - is it better to file late or go through DFVC? Suggestions?

[K2retire]

I have a similar question - for a plan that didn't file their 2012 5500 (it was their 1st year) - is it better to file late or go through DFVC? Suggestions?

It's not an either or proposition. They need to do both.

[Lou S.]

I have a similar question - for a plan that didn't file their 2012 5500 (it was their 1st year) - is it better to file late or go through DFVC? Suggestions?

It's not an either or proposition. They need to do both.

Not really. There is nothing that prevents you from just filing late if you don't mind paying the IRS fine. Not sure why you'd choose to do that though when DFVC is pretty easy and much cheaper than any penalty the IRS will impose for late filing but I don't think DFVC is technically required.

[Andy the Actuary]

There is a presumption that the IRS will impose a fine for late filings. I've been involved with late filings where the client presented their reason as well as emphasized they have a history of filing timely (in this case would have to be some other business filing or possibly the 2013 filing by the time the IRS gets around to reviewing the matter). The IRS has accepted this line of reasoning. This will not preclude them from sending a computer generated letter that imposes the fine.

[JKW]

Thank you for the guidance.