Had ex wife do my QDRO. Huge mistake. Can I have it amended?

[Guest sports]

I have been divorced for a little over a year now. we split all asets, including 401K, and retirement.

A month ago I called Fidelity to find out my retirement numbers ( which is going to be in about 7 years. I happened to see that it has my ex wifes name a spouse.

I called Fildelity to find out why her name was on my retirement account. I ended up talking to thier legal dept.

We both had seperate lawyers, My attorney ask me was it ok if the ex spouse attorney did our QDRO. Understand I didn't even know what a QDRO was/is.... It all sounded cut and dry 50%/50% split

She recieved her share of my 401K which was fine. But I come to find out her attorney added the QPSA and The QSAP which I still don't totally understand.

The company I work for is fully funded which I would have be able to take A lump sum when I reture. with the QPSA and the QSAP I have to take a 50% annuity when I retire, not to mention if I die before retiremennt she recieves my pension, Crazy......

She was already issued her share of my pension, why would I owe her anything when I retire. CAN I HAVE THIS AMENDED??? My whole future retirement plans are surrounded by my lump sume. As well as my two children being my beneficary when I die.

I have no idea why my attorey would tell me she looked at the QDRO and said it looks good to her, so I signed it, is it to late. Please help.

I am seeing another Attorney this week

Thanks

[david rigby]

CAN I HAVE THIS AMENDED???

Maybe. That's why you should have an attorney.

By the way, if the attorney is not well-versed in QDRO's, keep looking for one who is.

[Guest sports]

Thank you....

My ex wife also works for the same company.

[Effen]

Although it may feel like you are being taken advantage of, what you said doesn't sound outrageous, although you seem to be talking about 2 different plans - a 401(k) and a pension plan.

You said the 401(k) was split 50/50 and that has been distributed and a off the table.

I assume you are talking about a pension plan when you refer to lump sums and QPSA benefits. Since she was entitled to the death benefit while you were married and she can retain that right after the divorce through the QDRO. In addition, she is entitled to 50% of your benefit earned during the marriage. You may not agree with the law, but that doesn't change it.

QDROs are very complex and can split the pension in an infinite number of ways. Since you agreed to it and signed it there is probably nothing you can do now. Most judges don't accept "I didn't know what I signed" as a valid reason to re-open the QDRO. Besides, the terms you described sound fairly reasonable.

[david rigby]

To clarify, QPSA refers to a death benefit, paid to a surviving spouse if you die before retirement. Some plans will have a QPSA (or other pre-retirement death benefit) payable to a non-spouse. In your case, it appears the QDRO has (probably correctly, as Effen stated above) specifed your ex-wife as the "surviving spouse" for a portion of your pension benefit (ie, the pre-divorce portion).

BTW, be sure you check with your employer to correctly identify the beneficiary(ies) for any remaining benefit you have. For example, your ex-wife was probably listed as your beneficiary in your 401(k) plan, but you should change it now that she has been paid her portion under the QDRO. Verify this for everything that could need a beneficiary designation (IRA, benefit from prior employement, life insurance, etc.) Your divorce will not automatically change any of it.

[Guest sports]

My Children are my beneficiary for my 401 K and My Life insurance.... Working for the same company we both had to cancel each others life insurance policies on each other.

The frustrating thing about my QDRO on my pension plan is this.... She already recieved her portion of my retirement pension.

Her plan is set up the same way as mine, meaning she can not takea lump sum when she retires. I thought I read that I must understand my QDRO. I would never have agreed to it LIKE IT IS....

Why would'nt I have a case, sense she recieved her portion of my Pension already? I can not picture a judge not agreeing with me. My lump sum is everything...

Thanks for everyone help......

[ESOP Guy]

I would add part of the reason a judge will not be inclined to reopen the QDRO is because as stated before there is an infinite ways to divide the benefits.

I once knew a couple where the wife needed the house as the kids were still living there. The husband made a much higher income then the spouse so he was comfortable with the idea he could afford to buy a new place.

So he agreed to give the wife the house and the QDRO gave him 100% of the retirement benefits. Note the QDRO didn't mention the part about the house that was in the divorce decree. So from the judge's perspective even if your former wife got more then 50% of the benefits he doesn't know if there was some other part of the deal that made up for it. So the judge isn't going to want to possibly reopen the whole divorce settlement.

[Guest sports]

Can I have a Jury Trial???? As crazy as that sounds it's worth it to me and My children if I could go in that direction.

From what Fidelity told me, she would also have to have hers amended.

I will know more this evening as I see my attorney tonight...

[Guest sports]

OK, I seen my attorney, I am screwed, I signed a legal document..... My only hope is to try to talk my wife into signing off on it. we both will not be able to get a lump sum and when we both die our children would receive nothing. I'm going to offer her as my beneficiary to receive $150,000 on my life insurance if I pass before I retire. I made a huge mistake by letting her attorney do the QDRO for me, My new Attorney said I could sue her for malpractice, but good luck with that....

Anyone have any other advice on what I can do? if not thanks for every ones help

[Effen]

So you chose to let your ex-wife's attorney draft your QDRO, you chose not to have your attorney review it, and then you reviewed it and chose to sign it, and you think someone else caused your "problem"?

If you work at the same place, did you also seek a QDRO to attach her 401(k) and pension benefits?

Anyway, back to trying to help...you keep saying your "she already received a portion of your benefits", but then you way, "we will not be able to get a lump sum". This has me confused. Is the "portion of your benefits" she received from the 401(k) or the pension plan? It would be common for her to receive her portion of your 401(k) balance immediately, but it would be rare for her to receive your portion of your pension benefit until you chose to retire (or she chose to commence her payments). Also, I don't understand how any of that would impact your ability to receive a lump sum.

Do you know if your pension QDRO was a "separate interest" or a "shared interest" QDRO? Generally today most QDROs are "separate interest" which means the benefits are split into two pieces and each person makes their own benefit election on their piece that is independent from the other. A "shared interest" QDRO would be one in which the AP simply receives a portion of the participant's benefit, but the payments are contingent upon the participant's lifetime.

[Guest sports]

Yes I made that mistake and let the ex's attorney do my QDRO, I thought it was a simple 50/50 split.....

The were separate interest. The 401K was split

Sorry Trying not to confuse you, This is about my pension... With both of us having having survivorships on each other pensions. If I pass before I commence she would recieve a porsion of my pension as would my sons. The same would go to me if she passes.

I believe it's called a QJSP ??? So instead of taking a lump sum ( which are plan offers) I have to take a 50% annuity. The same goes for her.

It's not even the part of her getting money when I pass, which could be 20 years from now, it that with a lump sum I leave behind money for my family.

I called fidelity, they told me she already recieved her portion of my pension, which I can see with my new numbers.

So it sounds like because my Attorney signed and agreed with the QDRO without explaining it to me. I have to live with it. Learned a very costly lesson.

Thank everyone for there help and advice.

[david rigby]

I'm going to offer her as my beneficiary to receive $150,000 on my life insurance if I pass before I retire.

Huh?

Are you suggesting that you offer to let her be the beneficiary on some (or all) of your life insurance? Is this in exchange for something else? You may be focused too much on "leave behind money for my family", such that you give up a (not trivial) life insurance benefit, which is meant for your family.

[Effen]

sorry, but I am even more confused:

"The were separate interest. The 401K was split" - What was separate interest? The pension, or the 401(k), or both?

"With both of us having having survivorships on each other pensions. If I pass before I commence she would recieve a porsion of my pension as would my sons. The same would go to me if she passes." This sort of makes sense, except the "as would my sons" part. If your ex is to be the beneficiary of your J&50% S annuity, I don't know how any would end up with your sons since you cannot have a contingent beneficiary.

"So instead of taking a lump sum ( which are plan offers) I have to take a 50% annuity. The same goes for her." OK, this fits with your previous statement.

"called fidelity, they told me she already recieved her portion of my pension, which I can see with my new numbers." Did she receive her portion of your pension (DB) or your 401(k)? If she really did receive her portion of your pension, I would agree that forcing you into a J&50 with her as beneficiary seems redundant. There may not be anything you can do about it, but I would agree with your frustration. Does she also receive a portion of your pension as a monthly annuity, or does she only receive a monthly benefit after your death?

[masteff]

I called fidelity, they told me she already recieved her portion of my pension, which I can see with my new numbers.

Did she literally "receive" it, as in a lump sum? Or was the QDRO merely "applied" to your pension. I would wager that they set up the QDRO in their system so that a) you see a reduced future benefit reflecting the effect of the QDRO and b) she may be able to see her future benefit reflecting the QDRO.

Regardless of that, the provision regarding survivorship can be changed up to the moment that one of you dies. But as your new attorney explained, your ex will have to agree to it and you will have to pay your attorney to draft and file the revised DRO. If I'm reading correctly, the same thing was done to her pension as was done to yours... you might start by pointing out that as things stand, she won't get a lump sum either. Make it a win-win situation... if she agrees to the change then you both can get the lump sum when the time comes.

[Guest sports]

Masteff,

You hit the nail one the head.... Thank you... It must bave been Applied because I do see the reduction.

And yes it was set up the same way. I am writing her a letter regarding wht it's best we both take the lump sum. I put numbers togther and even if she recieved the 50% for 25 years it's only a faction of what the lump sum would be. I'm just hoping she smart enough to get it.

One last question that really bugs me... This being my QDRO, I didn't even sign off on the QDRO my attorny did without even explaining it to me.. I don't understand why I can't have it change and need her to sign off on it?

Thanks for your help if anything I feel better that it can be changed...

[ForksnKnives]

Before you do anything you need to get a better sense of what your benefits presently are and what the QDRO on your benefits and the QDRO on her benefits (if any) provide you. Judging by what you have written it sounds like you are not entirely clear. If you offer your ex-spouse a new deal to switch around benefits you may find that you have given yourself a bad deal twice. You may not even be able to execute an effective agreement because the plan may have no choice but to follow the QDRO, which will make all of this for nothing. Whether you can obtain a new QDRO is something you should discuss with your new lawyer.