non amender question

[Scuba 401]

how far back will the IRS make you go if you can't locate any plan docs since the 80's? the plan sponsor does have a determination letter on the 80's document.

[Lou S.]

My understanding is if you can't show amendments since the last DL, you need to do all the amendments from last DL to current date.

Others may have a different experience.

[austin3515]

I'm sorry, the newest plan document they can find is from the 1980's? Yikes!

[Scuba 401]

I have recently only submitted documents as far back as GUST. that is why I ask the question. isn't the service only asking for documents back to GUST?

[Lou S.]

The last submission we did we submitted from GUST - date of termination in 2014. The IRS did not ask for anything prior to GUST. We did not have a signed copy of the original document in 2000 but the IRS did not ask. We're very confident that a signed document did exist but were happy we didn't have to make the client search his records or go back to the prior record keeper to to locate the original plan document. YMMV

edit - I will note that submission was a 5310 for a terminating plan and not VCP for a non-amender.

[Flyboyjohn]

We recently filed a VCP that went back to the late '90s (TRA'86 document). Fortunately we were able to locate our pre-approved "Regional Prototype" from the early '90s to save the day.

[Kevin C]

With a VCP filing, the IRS only looks at the items submitted. They do not look for and do not ask about other items. The compliance letter (Form 14568, Section VII) says: "This compliance statement considers only the acceptability of the correction method(s) and the revision(s) of administrative procedures described in the submission and does not express an opinion as to the accuracy or acceptability of any calculations or other materials submitted with the submission. The reliance provided by this compliance statement is limited to the specific failures and years specified and does not provide reliance for any other failure or year. " So, you should not interpret the IRS not asking about something not in the filing to mean that it is ok.

The current non-amender schedule (Form 14568-B, Section IV) tells you to enclose the corrective amendments, the document in effect prior to the failure and the most recent determination letter (if applicable)

[Scuba 401]

turns out in this case they only have the first page and the signature page of the original plan document but they do have the determination letter. they really have to rebuild the plan from scratch. will the irs even allow the submission without the entire plan document?