RayJJohnsonJr Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Does anyone know if there is a way to do this in a 412i?: The participant is age 66 and still full time employed. NRA is 65. The participant (an owner) would like a withdrawal of a portion of his account. I'm not asking about the document, I'm asking about whether 412i regs permit it.
My 2 cents Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Would "withdrawal" and "his account" be meaningful in the context of a [fully-insured, defined benefit] 412i plan? Always check with your actuary first!
RayJJohnsonJr Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 In a 412i each participant has their own annuity. Some have life insurance, this one doesn't.
My 2 cents Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 I thought so. How do you make a "withdrawal" from an annuity? Wouldn't you just start to receive it (or, if permitted, cash the entire annuity out)? But this doesn't help you resolve your issue. I don't work with 412i plans and don't know if there are any special regulations governing them. In a funded defined benefit plan (the kind subject to sections 430 and 436), the plan is permitted to allow benefits to commence after attainment of normal retirement age or after attainment of age 62 while still in service. Always check with your actuary first!
david rigby Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 To the best of my knowledge, this is the only reg under 412(i), issued in 1980:http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2015-title26-vol7/pdf/CFR-2015-title26-vol7-sec1-412i-1.pdf Note: 412i was given a new designation in PPA, as 412(e)(3), effective in 2008, although the phrase "412i" persists. I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.
My 2 cents Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 To the best of my knowledge, this is the only reg under 412(i), issued in 1980: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2015-title26-vol7/pdf/CFR-2015-title26-vol7-sec1-412i-1.pdf Note: 412i was given a new designation in PPA, as 412(e)(3), effective in 2008, although the phrase "412i" persists. I don't know about you, but I can remember "412i" but not "412(e)(3)"! david rigby 1 Always check with your actuary first!
RayJJohnsonJr Posted August 7, 2015 Author Posted August 7, 2015 My 2 cents: In this case it is a deferred annuity that is like savings vehicles that can, one day, be converted to income. So the annuity permits withdrawals. Let me ask you this, in a regular DB, if an LSD is available after NRA, can a participant take a portion of their LSD? I know that would depend on the document. But, can a DB do it without running afoul of DB regulations?
Mike Preston Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 No, it isn't a deferred annuity that is like a savings vehicle that can, one day, be converted to income. That isn't a fully insured benefit. What it has to be in order to be fully insured is a product that INSURES (not ensures) the benefit called for under the plan. Options other than an annuity at maturity must be specified in the contract and conversion to a lump sum is one of those options. The circumstances where optional forms may be paid must also be specified in the contract or the plan. So, what does the contract say? What does the plan say?
RayJJohnsonJr Posted August 10, 2015 Author Posted August 10, 2015 The contract permits lump sum distributions and the plan permits lump sum distributions after NRA.
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