403(b) by doctor at hospital - effects on his practice's DB/DC combo.

[Bri]

Hi folks.

Doctor does some 403(b) deferrals at the hospital.  But he also has his own practice.  (No deferrals for him there.)

I know that the 403(b) deferrals count against the 415(c) limit under the practice's profit sharing plan.

But would they also get included in the 401(a)(4) average benefits percentage test for the practice's cash balance and 401(k)/profit sharing plans?

Thanks.

--Bri

[Luke Bailey]

I don't think so, Bri, because for 401(a)(4) you aggregate plans of the employer, including a controlled or affiliated service group employer. You also aggregate, of course, DC plans of an employer or controlled or affiliated service group employer for 415, but Treas. Reg. 1.415(f)-1(f)(1) has a special rule for 403(b) that treats the participant owner of the 403(b) contract as the employer with respect to it, but that is only for 415.

[Bri]

Thanks, Luke - That's what I was finding as well, that it only seems to get "mentioned" relating to 415.  Was hoping indeed I just wasn't missing something.