Overfunding a CB plan and the 6% rule

[xtide]

Hi all,

I’ve been learning about CB plans for a sole owner/employee S corp and have several questions I haven’t been able to find out or confirm with research. Hoping you can help.

1) If one overfunds a CB plan (more than the allowed frontload amount) for the first year, can that entire amount be deducted as a business expense that year from the Scorp?
 

The rep from a company that does these plans (as a TPA but not custodian) is telling me the overfunded amount would never be deductible- neither in the year it was deposited nor in the following years (even if the eventual W2 added up allows it). I understand that it all adds up to the lifetime max and therefore anything overfunded will have to be underfunded in the future to make up for it. But it doesn’t make sense to me that the amount overfunded would be lost forever- otherwise why would anyone do it?

2) the 6% rule (when having a DB plan and 401k) doesn’t apply when the DB plan is subject to the PBGC. I understand that a plan in this scenario doesn’t require PBGC coverage but is such coverage optional? As in- can one voluntarily pay PBGC premiums (presuming they don’t cost much- like $30 a year for a plan this size) to avoid the 6% limit? Or does this just not work?

3) the discrimination rules require contributions for all employees to my understanding. What if an employee already reached their lifetime maximum? Does a contribution need to be made for them to not violate these rules? (In this question I’m referring to possibly adding the spouse of the solo owner as the additional employee).

Thank you for the help!

[CuseFan]

1) For example, if the actuarial valuation report says maximum deductible contribution is $200,000, and the S-corp wants to contribute $300,000, can it be deducted? No. Might it be deducted in a future year? That's a question for the company's accountant. There are (or were last I knew) excise taxes for making nondeductible contributions to a qualified plan. The income passes through to the owner regardless, so why do it? Maybe such earnings can be retained by the S-corp and contributed and deducted later - again, involve an accountant. Also, owner's W2 may serve to determine/increase their 415 limit but does not directly limit (or provide "room") for the corporate deduction.

2) A plan either IS or IS NOT covered by PBGC based on the facts, there is no opting into or out of coverage.

3) Nondiscrimination requirements come into play when there are employees that are NHCEs. It looks like you are confusing the minimum participation requirement, where if you have two non-excludable employees (e.g., owner and spouse) you must cover both in defined benefit plan. An employee who does not benefit under a plan for a current year because they have reached their respective 415 limit is still considered covered and benefiting for minimum participation purposes is my understanding.

[dmdavala]

The excise tax on the excess contribution can be waived.  The sponsor should file Form 5330 indicating the amount of excess and then putting the same amount on the exempt line.  The filing documents the amount with the IRS.