Archimage Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 In regards to line 6g, if a plan that is filing on a cash basis, should it still include participants that have a receivable at the end of the year? These participants would have a zero balance without the receivable.
Kristina Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 A participant is a participant if he has met the eligibility requirements of the plan and entered the plan on the entry date on or following the satisfaction of those eligibility requirements. There is no requirement for there to be any accrued benefits or account balance as of that date or the following plan year end. Count them. Kristina
Archimage Posted February 25, 2019 Author Posted February 25, 2019 I am not referring to that. I am referring only to line 6g -- participants with an account balance.
Suzanne Wynn, JD, LLM Tax Posted February 26, 2019 Posted February 26, 2019 What type of defined contribution plan is the plan? And what is the reason for the receivable? Dave Baker 1
Archimage Posted February 26, 2019 Author Posted February 26, 2019 Just a 401k plan. It would be a profit sharing receivable. Normally I would say it would be based on cash basis balance, but the more I look at the instructions, I start to interpet it in the opposite manner.
BG5150 Posted February 26, 2019 Posted February 26, 2019 I would say to not include the receivables if you are doing your return on a cash basis. Take this exaggerated example: Plan has 20 participants. A 3% SH plan was set up late in the year. The one owner is the only one who deferred, and he deposited $1,000 by 12/31. So, your closing balance is $1,015 after earnings. But, you have a SH rec'able for those 20 people. Are you going to say there are 20 account balances for the $1,050? It doesn't make sense. QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Bird Posted February 26, 2019 Posted February 26, 2019 FWIW Paychex and their ilk almost certainly have a computer fill this field with actual cash balances. Ed Snyder
Tom Poje Posted February 26, 2019 Posted February 26, 2019 I'll take BG one step further. suppose it is first year of profit sharing plan. so no one has a balance, the 5500 shows nothing but 0's for assets. (When I started in this fool business years ago I think people insisted you at least deposit $100 just to have some type of balance, etc) I can vaguely recall Jethro Bodine running one of his calculations "Naught from naught is naught"
ESOP Guy Posted February 26, 2019 Posted February 26, 2019 Back when I did balance forward 4k plans and now doing all ESOPs we would show the count with the receivables in people's balances. To BG's example we would show the rec'ble in the assets on the Sch I or H also. I get daily plans tend to think differently. I think consistency might be more important. I haven't seen an IRS agent get too caught up in this level of details.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now