digger Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 I have a client with a safe harbor match only plan, which excludes union employees. The union plan is DB. Employer now wants to include only one of their 14 union employees in the 401k plan. All union employees are NHCEs. Assuming the CBA allows it, and aside from creating dissention in the ranks, is this ok?
david rigby Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, digger said: ...aside from creating dissention in the ranks ... No problem there. ? But seriously, what is the origin/backstory of this proposal? rr_sphr 1 I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.
jpod Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 Perhaps overly conservative on my part, but since I have never had this come up if I were in your shoes I would check the 410(b) rules to make sure that the exclusion for union employees isn't ALL OR NOTHING, i.e, whether you lose the ability to ignore the union employees in your headcount if you in fact cover one of them. Of course I am not in your shoes and perhaps you already know that this is not a problem. rr_sphr 1
Larry Starr Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 52 minutes ago, jpod said: Perhaps overly conservative on my part, but since I have never had this come up if I were in your shoes I would check the 410(b) rules to make sure that the exclusion for union employees isn't ALL OR NOTHING, i.e, whether you lose the ability to ignore the union employees in your headcount if you in fact cover one of them. Of course I am not in your shoes and perhaps you already know that this is not a problem. Not a problem; see my other response which will be written and posted AFTER this one. Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFC President Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. 46 Daggett Drive West Springfield, MA 01089 413-736-2066 larrystarr@qpc-inc.com
Larry Starr Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, digger said: I have a client with a safe harbor match only plan, which excludes union employees. The union plan is DB. Employer now wants to include only one of their 14 union employees in the 401k plan. All union employees are NHCEs. Assuming the CBA allows it, and aside from creating dissention in the ranks, is this ok? Perfectly ok; plan language would have to be modified to basically say you have a union exclusion EXCEPT for Employee X. More importantly, you need a written agreement from the union, and many unions will not give it to you. You cannot unilaterally change the terms of work for any union employee; only the union is their representative and they cannot negotiate for themselves. The union represents ALL the employees, and unions think differently. If you (as the employer) are willing to give this benefit to one union member, maybe they should be negotiating it for ALL the union members. Dealing with unions can be extremely complex and difficult (I once almost had armed guards put in my house because I was helping a company with teamster drivers redesign their DB plan to get the union DB plan off their backs and because they were threatened with a strike, strike breakers were going to be brought in and their "consultants" suggested everyone involved needed to have significant "protection". My wife was not happy! It was settled the day before this would have happened). Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFC President Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. 46 Daggett Drive West Springfield, MA 01089 413-736-2066 larrystarr@qpc-inc.com
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