Curiosity...

Let's say you have a 401(k)/PS, Safe Harbor nonelective, with 1 month eligibiity for deferrals, (entry date first of month coinciding with/next following satisfaction of eligibiity requirement), and 6 months/500 hours (entry date  1st of month coinciding with/next following satisfaction  of eligibility for both SH and PS. Plan IS top heavy. PS plan is cross tested, everyone in own group.Compensation for SH/PS is from date of participation.

So some people enter on 10/1/2019 for deferral purposes, and therefore get top heavy. Therefore, unless the "plan" of employer nonelective contributions is disaggregated, they are also required to get gateway. However, they have not yet satisfied the eligibility requirement to be able to receive a PS. Now let's suppose the "plan" does disaggregate the OEE's, so they are no longer required to get gateway. 

Two items to see if my memory serves: If the employer does NOT disaggregate the OEE's, how would one allocate a Gateway - seems like this situation would preclude cross testing. Agree/disagree? And IF the employer disaggregates the OEE's, and WANTS to contribute a PS for them, I recall the employer would be able to allocate to those OEE's who have otherwise actually satisfied plan eligibility, (say they were hired in February of 2019, for example) but gateway would still not be required, and this disaggregated "plan" could still not cross test. Agree/disagree?

Sometimes I think I remember things, and find out I don't...

P.S. - I suppose I should have considered document provisions that allow a gateway allocation  to participants who are not otherwise eligible to receive it. Some documents even allow it to people who are disaggregated if it is necessary to satisfy 401(a)(4). That wasn't available in the really "old" documents, and I think the "old" documents are what I'm remembering.

3 hours ago, Belgarath said:

Let's say you have a 401(k)/PS, Safe Harbor nonelective, with 1 month eligibiity for deferrals, (entry date first of month coinciding with/next following satisfaction of eligibiity requirement), and 6 months/500 hours (entry date  1st of month coinciding with/next following satisfaction  of eligibility for both SH and PS. Plan IS top heavy. PS plan is cross tested, everyone in own group.Compensation for SH/PS is from date of participation.

So some people enter on 10/1/2019 for deferral purposes, and therefore get top heavy. Therefore, unless the "plan" of employer nonelective contributions is disaggregated, they are also required to get gateway. However, they have not yet satisfied the eligibility requirement to be able to receive a PS. Now let's suppose the "plan" does disaggregate the OEE's, so they are no longer required to get gateway. 

Two items to see if my memory serves: If the employer does NOT disaggregate the OEE's, how would one allocate a Gateway - seems like this situation would preclude cross testing. Agree/disagree? And IF the employer disaggregates the OEE's, and WANTS to contribute a PS for them, I recall the employer would be able to allocate to those OEE's who have otherwise actually satisfied plan eligibility, (say they were hired in February of 2019, for example) but gateway would still not be required, and this disaggregated "plan" could still not cross test. Agree/disagree?

Sometimes I think I remember things, and find out I don't...

P.S. - I suppose I should have considered document provisions that allow a gateway allocation  to participants who are not otherwise eligible to receive it. Some documents even allow it to people who are disaggregated if it is necessary to satisfy 401(a)(4). That wasn't available in the really "old" documents, and I think the "old" documents are what I'm remembering.

 

I'm only responding to a piece of this; you can absolutely do a -11g amendment to add contributions to the OEE to allocate a "profit sharing" contribution to those employees who otherwise would not get one under the normal operation of the plan.  I assume there are no HCEs in that group (as the -11g has to pass non-discrim on its own).

An excellent point! Thanks.

Larry's on it - I would just double-check your BPD to confirm that there isn't tiny print guaranteeing the gateway anyway, as an as-needed sort of override.

Thanks, and there is. The gateway isn't given to the OEE's, BUT, it is given if necessary to satisfy 401(a)(4).