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Message Boards Digest

December 8, 2021

Here are the most recently added topics on the BenefitsLink Message Boards:

susieQ created a topic in Investment Issues (Including Self-Directed)

Anybody Know About Bank 'Participation Loans'?

"Is anyone familar with 'Participation Loans' as described below? Can a bank use its profit sharing plan's assets to purchase a portion of a loan from the lead lender?

'As defined by the FDIC, a loan participation is an arrangement under which a lender originates a loan to a borrower and then sells a portion of that loan to one or more other financial institutions. The lead or originating lender retains a partial interest in the loan, holds all loan documentation in its own name, services the loan, and deals directly with the customer.'"

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K-t-F created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Company X Is Owned by 2 Separate S-Corps

"A CPA came to me with this scenario. She and her partner own an accounting firm (Company X).

The accounting firm is owned by her S Corp (Company A) and her partner's S Corp (Company B)

Accounting firm ownership % is Company A 25%, Company B 75%

Company A owner earns W2 wages from Company X, Company B owner takes his Company X compensation in the form of a K1 to Company B

They want to set up a 401(k) plan for Company X.

[1] I don't see any problem there. Company X pays its employees and they can defer if they want. Correct?

[2] In this scenario are we required to include all 3 companies? I don't see a control group.

[3] Can each company have their own plan? I guess what is throwing me is that the S Corps own the accounting firm, not individuals. Does that make a difference?

Am I missing anything?"

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Biz Develop Consultant BJF created a topic in IRAs and Roth IRAs

Unforeseen Acquisition

"Recently had an advisor present a scenario where Company A (the client) has a SIMPLE IRA and planned to proceed with the plan for 2022; however, an unplanned acquisition (believed to be stock) just occurred and Company B (acquired company) has an existing 401(k) plan.

The transition rule could cover this but the employer is asking whether they could take over the 401(k) and put both Company A & Company B employees in that, rather than one group in the (k) plan and one group in the SIMPLE IRA.

I can't find anything to support this but I'm assuming it would not be a benefit cutback is there any relief, for the employer, if the employees get a term notice, albeit after the 11/02 deadline and the employees are receiving a better benefit."

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Jakyasar created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Controlled Group Exists with 50% Common Ownership?

"I'm fairly certain that it's OK to do the following but want to confirm.

Joe owns 50% of company A (other 50% owned by unrelated person).

Joe owns 100% of company B.

No affiliation between the 2 companies.

Joe can set up a DB plan separately under each company with full 415(b) limits as long as ownership is 50% or less in company A. Agree?

Joe can set up a DC plan separately under each company with full 415(c) limits ($58k in each company) as long as ownership is 50% or less in company A. Agree?

Please disregard any PBGC coverage issues."

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ConnieStorer created a topic in 401(k) Plans

402(g) Limit Is Capped by Self-Employed Participant's Earned Income?

"I recently reviewed a VCP submission where the attorney stated in the application that the participant exceeded both the 402(g) limits and the 415 limits for five years.

Basic facts: Schedule C Employer who sponsored both a defined benefit plan and a 401(k) plan. The participant, who was over age 50, deferred up to the 402(g) limit each of the five years in question. This individual made contributions to his defined benefit plan each of the years, in the amount of his Schedule C Income less the Self Employment Taxes.

The net effect is that he deferred more than 100% of his Earned Income. He obviously exceeded 415 limits and has excess contributions in his 401(k) Plan. However, I did not think that 402(g) was limited by wages. I always thought it was a straight dollar limit.

The 1099-R instructions state that Excess Deferrals not distributed by 4/15 of the following year are subject to double taxation. This same language is not included when you are dealing with excess Excess Contributions.

I realize that the only contributions to the 401(k) Plan were employee deferrals. However, if they did not exceed the 402(g) limit are they still considered Excess Deferrals or can they be considered Excess Contributions. Thanks for any insight."

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metsfan026 created a topic in Distributions and Loans, Other than QDROs

Statutory or Regulatory Limit on Number of Times a 401(k) Participant Loan Can Be Refinanced?

"Is there a limit to the number of times a loan can be refinanced in a 401(k) plan? I don't see anything in the regulations, but my document provider appears to have default language that limits the number of refinances to two. Could we remove that language without there being an issue?"

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Jakyasar created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Qualified Replacement Plan Counts Towards 3% Non-Elective Safe Harbor Contribution Requirement?

"Can QRP be used to satisfy 3% non-elective safe harbor (or even safe harbor match)? This is in addition to profit sharing allocation."

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

roy515 created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

Confusing DB Plan Language -- Life Expectancy vs. 5-Year Rule for Payment of Death Benefit

"Plan document facts:

  • The only pre-retirement death benefit allowed is what is required by law (the minimum spouse's death benefit)
  • It can only be paid as a life annuity to the spouse
  • The plan contains language allowing 'election to allow participants or beneficiaries to elect 5-year rule.' This language can be found on page 132 of the IRS' Defined Benefit Plan LRM package.

The obvious issue here is that the plan does not provide for a death benefit where the entire interest can be distributed by the end of the calendar year which contains the 5th anniversary of the date of death. Is this just a situation where, for this particular qualified plan, this election is not applicable? Or am I missing something?"

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

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