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February 12, 2024

Here are the most recently added topics on the BenefitsLink® Message Boards

FishOn created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Safe Harbor Match Amendment Never Implemented

"Large plan filer with payroll integration to the recordkeeper. Originally safe harbor match 100% up to 5%. However, signed an amendment for 2021 plan year to change to safe harbor basic match and distributed the participant notice as such. The plan information on the recordkeeper website and materials were updated to safe harbor basic match. This is where I get the plan without any of the knowledge of the amendment. Plan was restated later (effective date 1/1/21 signed 2022) with the prior safe harbor match 100% up to 5% and have provided the annual notices accordingly to plan sponsor to distribute to participants in 2023. The plan sponsor never changed the safe harbor matching formula in their payroll and has been matching 100% up to 5% for 2021, 2022 and 2023. Before and after the determination period was on pay period basis. Since the restated and signed plan document matches the operation of the plan, is there anything to correct?"

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KevinMc created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Hardship Withdrawals

"For a 401-k plan that allows hardship withdrawals I have 3 questions as I'm confused as to what has changed with the Secures Act, and what may have changed back!!: [1] For a 1st time homebuyer is there a limit of $10,000 or is it based on need (which may be $14,000 for example). [2] Can funds be used from the safe harbor match (for a safe harbor 401-k)? Are there certain needs it could or couldn't be used for. [3] Can the new qualifying birth and adoption withdrawal come from all sources? (safe harbor match included)"

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metsfan026 created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

Back Door Roth to Go with Cash Balance/PS Plans

"I have a two-man plan who has a Cash Balance + Profit Sharing combo Plan. One of the owners if, given the 6% limit into the Profit Sharing for deductibility, does he still have the ability to a mega backdoor Roth. Anyone have any guidance? Thanks in advance!"

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Jakyasar created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Additional Employer Adopting After the Year End and Deduction Issues

"Looking at a proposal for combo plan DB/DC, owner plus a bunch of employees DC is in existence for many years and DB will be retro to 2023. No PBGC coverage. Just found out that, the owner of the company sponsoring the DC plan also has a schedule c (no employees) which has substantial income but not adopted the DC plan as an additional employer so only w-2 is being used as his income. FYI W2 is 150k and schedule c income is 1M Q1. Can the schedule c retroactively adopt the DC plan as additional employer? Q2. If schedule c cannot adopt the DC plan retroactively as an additional employer but is included in the new DB plan, what compensation can be used for:

  • Combined testing
  • Combined deduction at 6% DC limit
  • Combined deduction at 31% limit"
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Catch22PGM created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Affiliated Service Group

"Company A is a physician's office and the Company A 401(k) Plan has been around for 20 years -- one owner/doctor with a dozen employees. The owner reached an agreement to 'partner' with a large organization which created an Affiliated Service Group (ERISA counsel confirmed) back in 2021. In the pile of paperwork the owner/doctor signed was a 'participation agreement' with the large organization's 401(k) plan that was to be effective 1/1/2023. That agreement is a boilerplate 1-page joinder agreement.

"The Company A 401(k) Plan is never frozen, terminated, or merged, and the participants continue to participate in this plan to this day (Feb 2024). The owner/doctor and his employees never intended to participate in the large organization's 401(k) plan -- in essence, he was slipped a piece of paper and signed it without knowing what it was about (not an excuse, but not unusual in my experience with physicians).

"The large organization is now demanding Company A cease operating the Company A 401(k) Plan, return all 2024 contributions to the Company A 401(k) Plan as a 'mistake-of-fact', and start participating in the large organization's 401(k) plan by the end of February 2024. The employees have never been provided enrollment materials, the SPD, or any other documentation for the large organization's 401(k) plan. They have deferral agreements in place with Company A and the Company A 401(k) Plan so I don't see how a mistake of fact would apply. Also, since the 'participation agreement' has an effective date of 1/1/2023, I don't see how trying to back-out 2024 contributions from the Company A 401(k) Plan fixes anything.

"The owner/doctor doesn't want to change the plan he has in place and wants to disregard the 'participation agreement' that he never would have signed had he known what it represented. [1] Has anyone come across a similar situation and if so, what was the outcome? [2] Is the 'mistake-of-fact' correction being thrown out there by the large organization appropriate? [3] If the doctor just ignores the large organization's 'participation agreement', and continues to keep the Company A 401(k) plan active, are there any issues he should be warned about (other than coverage testing)? [4] Any other comments/suggestions are very welcome."

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Bird created a topic in Distributions and Loans, Other than QDROs

Spousal Waiver When There Is a Marital Settlement Agreement

"Husband and wife are getting a divorce and have a signed Marital Settlement Agreement saying they each waive their rights to any retirement plan of the other. Plan has J&S provisions. My understanding is that the MSA is not enforceable by the plan itself -- that is, the plan would have to pay the husband if wife died before their divorce was final (which should be soon so this is a bit of a theoretical question, we hope). Putting it more clearly perhaps, the plan could not recognize a bene designation for anyone other than the husband unless he specifically signed a plan waiver; the plan cannot look at the MSA and say that is a satisfactory waiver. My 'research' (a quick google search) seems to imply that without a plan waiver, the plan would have to pay the husband, but then the estate could seek to recover assets from the husband since he had waived his rights. But the plan itself cannot recognize the MSA. ... Getting a little pushback from the attorney and wanted to double-check here."

5 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

thepensionmaven created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Switch to Elapsed Time to Simplify LTPT?

"I can't think of any employer wanting to offer part-time, barely subsisting employees the 'opportunity' to reduce a meager salary and contribute to the company 401(k). That being said, suppose an eligible PT (500-100 hours in the last three years) employee does not elect to contribute, or completes an election for with 0% or $0 deferral. Wouldn't that suffice, assuming the employee had 30 days notice prior to 1/1/24? OR, effective 1/1/24, the Plan Sponsor elects to use Elapsed Time with no hours. One year eligibility, enter the plan on the anniversary date coincident with or next following completion of the 12 months; contribution would be based on the one year of service (12 months) during the plan year (?) Vesting would be based on year of service with no hours. But, wouldn't such an amendment to the plan need to have been signed by 1/1/24 and all (not just LTPT) be notified at least 15 days in advance of 1/1/24. The whole concept of LTPT is mind boggling."

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thepensionmaven created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

Satisfying DB Funding Obligation with Contribution of Property

"We set up a DB plan for a sole proprietor who is on extension for 2023. Not surprisingly, the accountant is asking whether his client can contribute property instead of cash to fund the pension obligation. I have not run across this question in years, I doubt this can be done without raising a red flag to IRS and am looking for a cite."

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Jakyasar created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Combo Plan Testing with Otherwise Excludable Employees

"Looking at a DB/DC combo and checking on otherwise excludable (OEX) testing. Do I need to have an HCE in the OEX group for the PS portion? This is for 401a4 only as 410b passes easily without separating the groups (this is NESH plan with 3% mandatory allocation). It makes a difference in the gateway as I have 5 NHCEs that are OEX."

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Gruegen created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Hardship Self-Certification SECURE 2.0 Poll

"Just curious whether anyone knows whether large recordkeepers are moving to self-certification of hardship withdrawals as permitted by SECURE Section 312? Is this a choice by each plan sponsor, or are the recordkeepers mandating a specific service model?"

5 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

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