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August 7, 2025

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ESOP Guy created a topic in Retirement Plans in General

Anniversary Date Entry When Hired on the Second Day of a Month

"I have a client whose plan document says: A person enters the plan after 1 year of service with quarterly entry dates. The plan is clear you enter on the entry date coinciding with and next following meeting the entry requirements. A person hired on 10/2/2023 has 1,000 hours by 10/1/2024. I would always say this person enters on 10/1/2024. My client is asking for a cite. I really am thinking there is an IRS regulation that covers this situation. I just am not finding it. Can I get some help from the smart people out on this board? Does anyone know if it is in the regulations and where it is?"

13 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

Vlad401k created a topic in 401(k) Plans

LTPT in Average Benefit Test

"If an employee is LTPT (but not yet eligible for the 401(k) plan under the Plan Document's eligibility conditions), is that employee part of the Average Benefit Test or is he/she excluded?"

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

rocknrolls2 created a topic in 401(k) Plans

401(k) Plan for Collectively Bargained Employees: Is ADP/Safe Harbor Language Required?

"A client maintains a separate 401(k) plan for its collectively bargained employees. In some cases, non-bargained employees participate in the plan. My questions are:

  1. Does the portion of the plan benefiting non-collectively bargained employees need to satisfy coverage and does that portion of the plan have to either satisfy ADP testing or have a safe harbor design? As a corollary to the question, does the plan need to provide that this portion will be required to satisfy the ADP test or have a safe harbor design?
  2. If the sponsor elects to permissively aggregate the portions of the plan benefiting collectively bargained employees with the portion benefiting non-collectively bargained employees, must the plan provide in all cases that the ADP test or a design-based safe harbor must be satisfied with respect to both collectively bargained employees and non-collectively bargained employees? If so, can the application to collectively bargained employees be made conditional upon the sponsor's election to permissively aggregate both groups?

"IRS regulations at 1.410(b)-2(b)(7) provide that a plan benefiting solely collectively bargained employees is treated as satisfying minimum coverage requirements. If a plan benefits both collectively bargained employees and non-collectively bargained employees, the portion of the plan benefiting collectively bargained employees is treated as a separate plan from that portion of the plan benefiting non-collectively bargained employees. The portion benefiting collectively bargained employees automatically is treated as automatically satisfying the coverage requirements.

"Turning to IRS nondiscrimination requirements, Reg. Section 1.401(a)(4)-1(c)(5) provides that the nondiscrimination requirements are treated as satisfied by a collectively bargained plan that automatically satisfies the minimum coverage requirements. As applied to 401(k) plans, generally the regulations follow the rules applicable to the minimum coverage requirements. Specifically, with respect to collectively bargained employees, the regulations permit the portion of a plan benefiting collectively bargained employees to be permissively aggregated with the portion of a plan benefiting non-collectively bargained employees. See Reg. Section 1.401(k)-1(b)(4)."

1 reply so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

Mikeyl41 created a topic in Defined Benefit Plans, Including Cash Balance

Delayed Distribution of Initial Annuity or Lump Sum Because of Annual Audit?

"I applied for my lump sum in July since my age 65 100% date was August 1st. Paperwork says 15-20 biz days for distribution. I received confirmation email July 22nd confirming all docs received and in good order. (Plan is fully funded) I received a call on August 5th I answered thinking they were confirming my rollover check was being sent out, however I was told my distribution was being delayed until October 15th due to the annual audit. I asked why I wasn't told this when they accepted my docs July 22nd and she said she didn't know why. Being in the industry for 25 years (mostly in DC) I had never heard of anything so ridiculous, I said that and hung up. I've spoken to a few friends in DB biz and they said the same that this isn't allowed under ERISA. The company that I worked for IS the plan admin and they have a history of doing whatever they feel like…..can someone please comment and give me an opinion on this?"

9 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

Peter Gulia created a topic in Plan Document Amendments

When Might a Plan Sponsor Prefer an Individually-Designed Plan Document?

"If an ERISA-governed retirement plan has access to a recordkeeper's or third-party administrator's IRS-preapproved plan documents, what plan provisions or other circumstances would lead a plan's sponsor to state the plan using an individually-designed document?"

2 replies so far   |    Click Here to Add a Reply

PS created a topic in Plan Terminations

Nondiscrimination Testing Date for Terminated Plan

"The plan termination date is 06/30/2025 however is it okay that the plan details report notes 12/31/2025 as the testing end date?"

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