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August 14, 2025

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401kSteve created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Company Wants to Leave PEO Plan

"I have a prospect that is currently engaged with a PEO, but unhappy with it. What they would like to do is start a new 401(k) (along with other benefits) for their office staff immediately, then at year end, when the contract with the PEO runs out, move all the warehouse/PEO employees into the new 401(k) plan. It would seem to me that it's possible to do this, but I feel we may need to test the plan as a whole, including all the employees currently in the PEO plan? The plans would have the same benefits, eligibility, match, etc. so that's not an issue. Would it be possible to exclude leased employees (those under the PEO) from the new plan and then once they become true employees of the new company at year-end, they would become eligible for the independent plan?"

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LauraS created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Nondiscrimination Testing for Multiple 401(k) Plans in Controlled Group

"A controlled group exists and encompasses six different 401k plans as follows:

  1. Traditional safe harbor using safe harbor employer match formula
  2. Traditional 401k with its own employer match formula
  3. Traditional 401k with its own employer match formula
  4. Traditional 401k with its own employer match formula
  5. Traditional 401k with its own employer match formula
  6. QACA safe harbor using an Enhanced Match formula

The plan count has been paired down as far as it can so combining plans is not an option. I know this is an off the wall question but could #s 1 and 6 intentionally ignore the ADP/ACP testing exemption so the NHCEs from each plan could potentially help the other plans pass ADP/ACP testing and avoid refunds?"

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Chaz created a topic in Health Plans (Including ACA, COBRA, HIPAA)

Microsoft as Business Associate

"Do any of you that maintains PHI use Microsoft as your cloud provider? Have any of you who do successfully convinced Microsoft to enter into a business associate agreement?"

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t.haley created a topic in 401(k) Plans

401(k) Participant Deceased and Beneficiary Deceased Before Any Distribution Made

"401k participant terminates employment due to disability in 2020 (entitling him to an immediate distribution under the terms of the plan) and dies 4 months later. No distribution made to participant following his termination and prior to his death. Primary beneficiary alive at this time however she dies 10 months later in 2021. No distribution to primary beneficiary before her death. Participant's benefit still in plan and under $1,000. Plan administrator is trying to determine the proper party to receive distribution of account and get the money out of the plan. Based on the timing, I would think the primary beneficiary was entitled to an immediate distribution upon the participant's death in 2020 and because she subsequently died, the distribution should go to her estate. We do not know if an estate was opened but we have contact information for her daughter (the sister of the participant). Could the plan administrator issue a check to the 'Estate of [Mother]' and mail it to her daughter? Then her daughter can decide whether the open an estate? Or would it make more sense to just rollover the account to an IRA as provided in the plan's small cash-out provision?"

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TPA Bob created a topic in 401(k) Plans

Participant's Deferral Election and Non Cash Compensation

"Plan compensation is defined as W-2 compensation with no exclusions Employer provides group term life and has to add to the employee's W-2 at end of year the PS 58 costs (or whatever it is called today). Plan is silent as to non cash compensation in this regard. I remember years ago at a seminar that you cannot defer to the 401(k) if no cash element. I just never see non-cash fringe benefits being excluded in the Plan documents for 401(k) purposes. Is this because a cash or deferred arrangement? I am confused and not sure if I need to be concerned. Thoughts / cites are very much welcome."

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