This is only indirectly about 409A, but I'm looking for guidance when both section 83 and 409A apply to a plan.

Has anyone thought about whether an employee can voluntarily delay the lapse of a substantial risk of forfeiture under section 83? Regulations under 409A and 457(f) deal with this issue, but I can find nothing under section 83.

Example: Jane is given restricted stock as part of her compensation. She must forfeit the stock unless she remains with the employer for at least five years. She does not make an 83(b) election.

When the end of the five-year period is nearing, she decides that she would rather take the risk of forfeiting the stock rather than paying the income tax right now. She therefore agrees with her employer that the stock will be forfeitable unless she remains with the employer for at least another two years beyond the five-year period originally provided for.

Does this work to defer the taxation? Obviously, if you did this, you'd want also to comply with the 409A rules governing second deferrals, but I'm just trying to figure out whether it's even possible under section 83.

Has anyone thought about whether an employee can voluntarily delay the lapse of a substantial risk of forfeiture under section 83? Regulations under 409A and 457(f) deal with this issue, but I can find nothing under section 83.

Example: Jane is given restricted stock as part of her compensation. She must forfeit the stock unless she remains with the employer for at least five years. She does not make an 83(b) election.

When the end of the five-year period is nearing, she decides that she would rather take the risk of forfeiting the stock rather than paying the income tax right now. She therefore agrees with her employer that the stock will be forfeitable unless she remains with the employer for at least another two years beyond the five-year period originally provided for.

Does this work to defer the taxation? Obviously, if you did this, you'd want also to comply with the 409A rules governing second deferrals, but I'm just trying to figure out whether it's even possible under section 83.

Hi,

I'm interested in offering several additional services to my financial planning practice, notably:

• Benefits Administration (for things like section 105, section 125 plans)
• Retirement/Pension Administration (including 401(k), cash balance, and other retirement solutions.

I'd like to know what education or qualifications would be best advised to be able to competently manage such plans. I'm currently acquiring the Enrolled Agent designation, and feel that I need some more niche specific training/certs.

Additionally, I'd really like the chance to see what software solutions are out there in a conference/expo format so that I could get a grasp for they are capable of. Are there any recommended conferences like this?

Best

Matt

We have a client that has an immediate entry for deferrals and 6 month wait for match. ER recognizes service from another ER. When EE came to ER, they were allowed to contribute immediately, but didn't receive match (even if they had worked over 6 months for ER for whom the ER recognizes service). All corrections discuss "missed deferral opportunity," however these employees did have the opportunity to defer just may not have because they did not believe they were eligible for the match. Had they been notified they were eligible for the match, they MAY HAVE contributed. Do they need to contribute a match based on this quasi, missed "match" opportunity?

On a form for a spousal consent to waiver, the spouse is consenting to "payment of the distribution from the Plan in the form of a lump sum or direct rollover distribution" specific enough? Does " a lump sum or direct rollover" constitute consent to an optional form?

Thanks for any replies.

Does anyone know how correcting under PTE 2002-51 works. I am finding text on this topic "lacking".

From what I gather, if the 5330 tax is less than $100 and the late deposits were made within 180 days, you only need to have a copy of the "unfiled" Form 5330 proving tax is under $100 and provide a notice to employees. It also seems that you may not have to even do the notice.

Anyway, I seem to have a serious mental block on this topic, so any help is appreciated.

Happy Friday Afternoon,

I have a US and PR plan. The US plan is not passing "ratio" coverage testing. I have included the PR employees as non-excludable not benefiting. I would like to run the ABT test. My question...do I include the PR plan in the counts, but not include their contributions? If it was two US plans, I would include all comp/contributions. I am just not sure how it works when one member of the controlled group is a PR plan.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Employer has a nonqualified plan with salary deferrals and some employer money. They also have several subsidiaries that are owned 50-80% and therefore not in the same controlled group. Can key employees of the subs participate in the parent's plan?

All taxes run through the payroll system of the entity actually employing the employees, i.e., subsidiary payments processed and reported through subsidiary's payroll, not parent's.

Can the subs be drafted into the plan document's eligibility terms? Separate participation agreements?

I am working on a 401(k) plan with a match and profit sharing component. There is a J&S provision from years ago that was never removed. Hardship distributions are allowed for 401(k) deferrals only. If a participant's total vested balance is over $5,000, but they are taking a hardship distribution from the 401(k) account of $1,000, does this require spousal consent? I believe so from what I am reading but would appreciate confirmation.

Thanks!

I'm looking for some direction on the administration of Multiple Employer Trusts, specifically with regard to filing 5500 forms. I can't find any specific practitioner information on how they should be filed.

I know that the separate plans file their own 5500 forms, but is there a master trust filing required? If so, does it require audit if the sum of participants in all participating plans exceeds 120?

Help me settle a disagreement. The payroll period is June 16 to June 30 with the employee receiving their paycheck on July 5 and July 21. The plan entry date is July 1. Should the first deferral deduction be made with the July 5 paycheck or the July 21?

Anyone else get a pretty large number of errors related to SSN & Employee name match for the 1094 reporting? It is really strange that IRS would reject employees Name/SSN that were not exactly the way it is on their Social Security card. So someone like Samuel Smith should have been Samuel Michael Smith on 1095. I don't recall anything saying that an employee needs to have their exact name in any employer system to be the same on their SSN card. So a abbreviated middle name may not be possible in the future because it causes errors or even the suffix like Jr. or II, etc could even be another problem. How are you approaching this problem if you received the errors back that SSN and Name do not match their records. How are you going to collect the data from the employees? A simple response would be I9 (unless employee provided passport/DL instead), but for so many errors, it will take a very long time to fix.

Has anyone heard of an arrangement where the only risk of forfeiture is the plan sponsor's solvency/insolvency? Here is the scenario: executive enrolls in deferred comp plan with payout to occur three years out. The executive receives credits/deposits to his deferred comp account periodically throughout each year. If executive resigns before the three years, he receives whatever is in his account at that time. The only way he doesn't receive what is credited to his account is if the plan sponsor goes bankrupt.

I have never heard of this where the only risk of forfeiture is the solvency of the plan sponsor. To me, this doesn't seem like a "substantial" risk. Is anyone else familiar with this and whether it is permitted? By the way, the plan sponsor is a for-profit entity.

Thanks.

Governmental employer has agreed to make the maximum annual contribution permitted for a senior manager to a 457(b) Plan, i.e., a non-elective contribution. Does the extra $6,000 catch-up have to be elective, or can it be non-elective?

A client has asked how to treat the final paycheck(s) of a deceased employee for plan purposes. It seems to me that it would be treated the same as the final paycheck of any other terminated employee. But I know that the income tax treatment of Income in Respect of a Decedent has some specific rules (that I no longer remember) and I wondered if that makes any difference for plan purposes.

Say a Non Profit has a 457(b) plan - only one participant. This participant is going to retire, or perhaps just has. I don't know. Question is: if employer decides to terminate the plan, as permitted in the document and regulations, (1.457-10(a)(1)) is there any way for the participant to avoid immediate taxation of all proceeds? There's no rollover option, and participant isn't transferring to another NP that has such a plan, so the transfer option isn't available... I don't see any way to avoid taxation of the entire amount, but maybe I'm missing something.

Is there such a thing as, prior to termination, the employer purchases an irrevocable annuity with the payee being the participant, under an annuity/installment option otherwise available under the plan?

Kind of a bummer for the one person who was counting on continued tax deferral - I realize they had the benefit of it while working, but still an unfortunate change in circumstances when he was planning based on something else...

Thanks.

What are the consequences for the Plan sponsor for failing to send participants the annual fee disclosure notice?

This may be an easy question, but one I don't know the answer to. If an employee making $100K becomes eligible for the safe harbor plan on July 1, is his 3% nonelective contribution based on $100K, or $50K?

Wasn't sure where to post a question like this....

One of my clients received a packet concerning settlement of a class action suit against one of the stocks in their plan. The plan consists of individual participant directed brokerage accounts.

Does the trustee have any responsibility for responding to the settlement claim?

Because it is in a participant directed account, does the responsibility shift to the participant?

I am (considering) using the accrued to date testing method for a medium size DB plan. I typically use the annual method for my smaller plans, which are usually DB/DC.

A participant has an AB but because they worked less than 1000 hours did not accrue in the current year. (Worked 800 hours and still active.) Are they "not benefiting", or do I use the AB/Svc/Ave Comp?