WDIK

W4-P FWIW.

While it is allowable to file Form 5500-C/R with a single participant, that doesn't help with respect to the DFVC Program. The program is only available to plans subject to Title I of ERISA. This excludes Form 5500-EZ filers and Form 5500 filers for plans without employees. Since the $100,000 filing exemption appears not to apply (at least for some years), this essentially leaves the option of the tear stained letter for the one-participant years and the DFVC Program for the others. The box you mark does say "the first return filed for the plan".

I think the Will Parker (from Rodgers and Hammerstein's Oklahoma) principle applies here. It's "All Er Nothin'".

Effen, I agree with this assessment you made in your first post. It appears that the adoption agreement was improperly completed. What should have been entered is the number of Years of Service (if the Hours of Service method is elected elsewhere) or Periods of Service (if the elapsed time method is elected). 1000 hours Years of service just makes no sense at all. I don't think there is a legitimate interpretation for such an entry.

http://www.the-coop.org/wwwboard/discus/messages/3/4326.html (In case you were wondering.)

I have two recommendations. 1. Carefully review the instructions for Form 5500 available at the irs website. 2. Engage competent, professional assistance to complete the filing.

Don't bet the farm, but I believe that Section 72(p), relating to loans treated as distributions, was added to the IRC by the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982.

I would also choose option one based on the following line from Notice 2001-56. As under pre-EGTRRA law, any such increases shall apply only with respect to annual compensation during the plan year or other 12-month period over which compensation is determined that begins with or within such calendar year (and any subsequent calendar year).

Revenue Procedure 2003-44, Section 10.08(4) indicates that "[a] Plan Sponsor that discovers additional unrelated Qualification or 403(b) Failures after its initial submission may request that such failures be added to its submission. However, the Service retains the discretion to reject the inclusion of such failures if the request is not timely, for example, if the Plan Sponsor makes its request when processing of the submission is substantially complete." To "coordinate" the filings I would contact the representative listed in the VCP acknowledment letter for the original submission and provide the appropriate control number.

http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=30362

From Schedule P Instructions: Purpose of Schedule You may use this schedule to satisfy the requirements under Code section 6033(a) for an annual information return from every section 401(a) organization exempt from tax under section 501(a). The statute of limitations under section 6501(a) for any trust described in section 401(a), which is exempt from tax under section 501(a), will not start to run until you file this schedule. From the Code: 6501(a) General rule Except as otherwise provided in this section, the amount of any tax imposed by this title shall be assessed within 3 years after the return was filed (whether or not such return was filed on or after the date prescribed) or, if the tax is payable by stamp, at any time after such tax became due and before the expiration of 3 years after the date on which any part of such tax was paid, and no proceeding in court without assessment for the collection of such tax shall be begun after the expiration of such period. For purposes of this chapter, the term "return" means the return required to be filed by the taxpayer (and does not include a return of any person from whom the taxpayer has received an item of income, gain, loss, deduction, or credit).

This citation may also help. Sec. 1.401(a)(9)-8 Special rules. Q-1. What distribution rules apply if an employee is a participant in more than one plan? A-1. If an employee is a participant in more than one plan, the plans in which the employee participates are not permitted to be aggregated for purposes of testing whether the distribution requirements of section 401(a)(9) are met. The distribution of the benefit of the employee under each plan must separately meet the requirements of section 401(a)(9). For this purpose, a plan described in section 414(k) is treated as two separate plans, a defined contribution plan to the extent benefits are based on an individual account and a defined benefit plan with respect to the remaining benefits.

Try here.

Do you count the Form 5500 instructions? See line 4a for Schedule I or Schedule H.

The lack of specific instructions certainly creates an ambiguous situation. At this point, I would probably be inclined to let sleeping dogs lie (assuming the canine is indeed in a state of slumber), but I would also want to improve a system that requires a month to set up a deferral arrangement.

That is not my impression. I thought that deemed versus offset was based on factors independent of age.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Would you please be kind enough to elaborate?

Do the enrollment matierals specify when the election will be effective? My opinion is that the deferrals should be withheld beginning with whatever payroll is designated by the election. If it is administratively impossible to begin withholding deferrals on such short notice as might apply to this scenario, I would recommend a change in plan language or administrative policy to allow sufficient lag time.

I agree. At first, it seemed strange to me to do a final filing that would show a zero (rounded) balance at both the begininng and ending of the plan year, but that would seem to be the case. Other threads use the term "tear stained letter", which seems to be the best available option.

1) Please verify that the 2003 filing was required (in other words plan assets at some point exceeded $100,000.) 2) What was the value of the trust investments at the beginning of the 2004 plan year?

Some examples of types of 401(a) plans include profit sharing plans, money purchase pension plans and defined benefit pension plans.

Take the plunge! Besides, it appears from my experience that most (if not all) extraneous attachments made to a filing do little good.

The following thread, although several years old, may provide some assistance. http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=12725

Or to put it another way: Yes, we have no bananas.

I do not want to presume to speak for another poster, but perhaps that is what QDROphile was trying to say (in QDROphile's own subtle way).