Leopurrd

Although I think WDIK is right on, another alternative situation could be that the plan was top heavy and could not use integration for the year (assuming they are on a 2 tier).....

I don't think we can really answer based on the amount of info you've given??? Since you don't pass ratio I would try the average benefits test and the 2% QNEC would help the ABT. If your ratio fails that much you may want to ask why so many people did not receive a match (partial term?) or perhaps change the doc requirements.....

perhaps this helps: (From the 5500 instructions) Box A(2). Single-Employer Plan. Check this box if the Form 5500 is filed for a single-employer plan. A single-employer plan for this Form 5500 reporting purpose is an employee benefit plan maintained by one employer or one employee organization. Box A(3). Multiple-Employer Plan. Check this box if the Form 5500 is being filed for a multiple-employer plan. A multiple-employer plan is a plan that is maintained by more than one employer and is not one of the plans already described. Multiple-employer plans can be collectively bargained and collectively funded, but if covered by PBGC termination insurance, must have properly elected before September 27, 1981, not to be treated as a multiemployer plan under Code section 414(f)(5) or ERISA sections 3(37)(E) and 4001(a)(3). Participating employers do not file individually for these plans. Do not check this box if the employers maintaining the plan are members of the same controlled group. --------- Just to chime in, in my world, most plans operate on a prototype plan. Most prototypes include controlled group members automatically and therefore there is only one plan for a CG and one 5500. I think that 2 5500's are filed in error and there should only be one. Now, if the two plans adopted the same document but were NOT a CG, you would file a 5500 for each plan. Vicki

You would want to use a non-standardized document. Standardized documents do not let you exclude employees by class. I don't think that there is anything wrong with excluding commissioned employees, you only need to be sure that upon audit the IRS can clearly classify a "commissioned" employee. Besides excluding the employee, you need to pass all non-discrimination testing. (to clarify, if/once the excluded employee meets all plan requirements, they would count against your bottom line for coverage. you have to have at least a 70% ratio to pass. Of course, you can also use average benefits, but this is a quick example). Hope this helps, Vicki

Thanks, Tom. I didn't even think to try a Google search. I'm not sure what happened to the leopard picture. Maybe it was too big? I guess I need to find another. If you do come across an old practice exam, please let me know! Vicki

Does anyone have a link or perhaps the file for an old DC-2 Sample Exam? I didn't see them on ASPPA's website this year and have a friend who would really appreciate a pre-test. Thanks! Vicki

Well, if you used the ratio percentage test, and it didn't meet an exception to the coverage test (think 1st Page of old Schedule T exceptions), you would mark the ratio box. If you used the Average Benefits Test for coverage, you would check that box. I'm thinking since the plan is safe harbor, you probably meet the "All NHCE's benefitted" exception and shouldn't check either box....

did anyone ever hear of an estimated release date?

The funds have to be distributed to the spouse within 5 years, since the death occurred before the Required Beginning Date for 70 1/2 distributions. I believe there may be a way around this if she elects to take an annuity over her life expectancy. Also, death is one of the exceptions to the 10% rule. Might be easier to roll into her own IRA?

I'm assuming the document was amended in 2006 to include the SH match in 2007 - if so, removing the match will also require an amendment to the plan. Don't forget that testing must be ran on current year method.

i would think immediately. the document should state something about switching from an excluded to an included group?

if you are NOT a safe harbor plan, you may have a chance to pass on prior year testing. BUT, if that's the case, then next year the HCE's can't defer (except catch up).

I'm not sure if this would be allowed, since the majority of your NHCE's wouldn't have a chance to defer (as you stated in your post). Seems that you would be adding the 401(k) just so your HCE's could max out, since you'd have less than 2 days to amend, receive salary deferral agreements, etc. It sounds discriminatory......I'm curious as to what other posters say about this. I'd go with an amendment to add the 401(k) as of 1/1/07 and start there.

You are almost correct - there is no additional testing except the 410(b) coverage requirements (ratio for your profit sharing contrib)

I found the research paper posting to be most entertaining.... http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?s...=33598&st=0

No. the original loan must be paid off within 5 years (i'm assuming its not a residential loan) so the re-fi must be paid in full no later than 2009.

I don't believe that MPP's can have a 401(k) option. Sorry that i can't cite it, but I remember reading that somewhere. Anyway, 401(k)'s are always a profit sharing plan, although a profit sharing plan isn't necessarily a 401(k) Plan...I'm hoping I make sense here! Discretionary contributions are the norm in profit sharing plans but there are some crazy folks out there who like to guarantee their employees a contribution once in a while. Also,other profit sharing plans could offer required contributions, in the case of a 401k safe harbor.

I don't think terminating the plan itself creates a short plan year, because your plan continues to file forms 5500 until the assets are fully distributed; usually the last filing creates a short plan year when the last dollar leaves the trust. therefore, you shouldnt have to worry about pro-rating any limits, etc.

i would think that if the plan calls for match on a payroll basis you would not true up. However, if the plan calls for match based on the plan year, and the company has put in the match by payroll (which would generally require a true up) you would not test BRF, only 410b on the contribs in general. Basically, just follow how your doc requires you to calc the match and you should be fine.

I believe that the instructions are simply stating that a Form 5500 is required until the assets equal zero. usually this results in a short plan year, because you'd file as soon as the last dollar in the plan is paid out. every now and then a plan sponsor doesn't meet the one year rule and must update their doc as needed for current legislation.Usually due to missing participants, etc.

in a nutshell... Custodian means they only hold the funds. Trustee means they are taking a fiduciary responsibility regarding the plan. you may want to see if your firm has a Pension Answer book or ERISA Outline book. See the definition of trustee or fiduciary. Either way (custodian/trustee) there should be some sort of agreement between the plan sponsor and custodian/trustee on their duties (hopefully!)

Austin, Thanks for passing that along! It just goes to show you that if you ask 5 different ERISA lawyers the same question, you'll probably end up with 5 different answers!

I'm not sure...I think you can purchase a hard copy through Aspen publishers or someone like that? We have ours online through cch.com.

me too! This could really change Cross-Tested plan results....

Yikes. I can understand why you are so confused! I've always relied on the 5500 Preparer's Manual. Here's what it states for the line regarding MF's: "Do include a mutual fund as a single security, even though such a security is generally diversified to minimize the risk of large losses." This makes sense to me since you wouldn't want a pooled plan to invest only in one Mutual Fund, even thought it is technically "diversified". The question is really looking out for the little people who can't state where to invest their own $. Good luck on your decision making!