david rigby

Is this relevant? http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/articl...d=98350,00.html

Duplicate post: http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=51179

Required? Yes, I agree with Tom's reading of the instructions. Real world: former participants do get letters from the SSA and ask about a possible benefit. It's a PITA, and everyone should avoid it. If you are the TPA, it is your job to minimize this, so that makes the reporting of D's required.

Before deriving "gross" pay, it's probably best to define it first.

It's just you.

Since the partial termination is unknowable now, follow the plan now. Maybe the plan will get additional administrative expense later, but so what?

Correct. However, if the prior plan was limited by the 415 % limit and the new plan can recognize greater compensation (up to the $ limitation), there might be value in such a plan.

Employees? Participants?

No matter when the plan is terminated, plan assets must be liquid.

In case you did not notice, the important word in the above posts is "beneficiary", and the context is "death benefit". Your turn now.

1099-R? If being paid under plan EIN, and using a 1099-R, that looks a lot like a plan distribution to me. Presumably, this extra payment will be rollable?

That's a good question, they may not be the same company but they definitely are in the same controlled group. It could be an umbrella company. Is controlled group the relevant question? (Don't know, just asking.)

Data as of 30-MAR-12 (Friday) Moody's Daily Long-term Corporate Bond Yield Averages Utilities Industrial Corporate Aaa NA 4.04 4.04 Aa 4.24 4.20 4.22 A 4.54 4.61 4.58 Baa 5.20 5.40 5.30 Avg 4.66 4.56 4.61 Moody's Daily Treasury Yield Averages Short-Term (3-5 yrs) 0.70 Medium-Term (5-10 yrs) 1.61 Long-Term (10+ yrs) 2.90

So what you're saying is that if the employee requests a distribution, they employer has to oblige without the completion of the QDRO process? NO, that is definitely not what QDROphile stated, nor implied.

I did not see a reference to 414 (but I could be mistaken). The reg refers to active participants in the plan. Since that reg was probably written long before any bureaucrat anticipated the concept of a frozen plan, my hunch is they were thinking "actively accruing benefits". If I get a chance, I'll ask the question next week.

Probably yes. Read PBGC reg. 4043.23 (including definition of "active participant") and instructions for Form 10.

Like.

Practicalities may also help. If you have any under $5K distributions, those may be the simplest part of your paperwork; getting them "out of the way" should not be a problem, as long as you are not creating any significant delay for other participants.

Employer might need a new recordkeeper.

For the non-actuaries out there reading this, the "law of large numbers" is not a "law" at all, but just reflects some ability to predict overall patterns, at least approximately. In any particular case or ALM study, the actuary will take note of any special demographic or plan characteristics that might cause (or increase) volatility in any measurement. In other words, hiring an actuary is a great idea!

Excellent replies above. In particular, if the plan is large enough, and the sponsor willing to pay for it, the actuary can perform asset liability modeling. This is stochastic modeling, usually of alternative asset mixes, and covers multiple years with probabilities that certain outcomes will be met (such as, the plan's funded ratio will be at least X%). As frizzyguy states, this is not cheap, and must also include the sponsor's agreement willingness to fund the plan. The end result is NOT the single best asset mix, but a model of how different mixes and cash flow patterns are expected to behave. It does not make the actuary a fiduciary; instead it takes advantage of the actuary's consulting and mathematical skills to help the plan sponsor manage the plan's future. That's a good thing, a very good thing.

A triple oxymoron!

In addition, the plan might also incur some administrative expense associated with an unpaid loan.

To whom would you send such a notice?

How much are you paying?