david rigby

I agree with Gary. In fact, because the plan was amended in any way that might affect the accrued benefit, then you *must* grandfather the amount as of the date of change (that is, the later of the effective date or the adoption date). Gary is also correct in his reference to plan provisions. If the plan is silent on this (hard to believe it could omit a definition of PIA), then you should probably adopt whatever has been done in the past. In more than 20 years, I have never seen a definition of PIA that included any increases in future salary of wage base. The likely definitions are to assume level future earnings or zero future earnings.

To followup on rcline46's comments, most plans (especially defined benefit plans) require any participant to sever employment to receive a benefit. This typically includes death, disability, retirement, or other termination of employment. Some plans, but by no means a majority, permit an employee to receive benefits at Normal Retirement (defined in the plan, but ususally 65) while still employed. If A's plan had this provision, it cannot be removed by transferring to B.

Tom has summarized very nicely. One addition to his comment: "...the following year you would report him only if you did not pay him out". You also do not need to report on the SSA if the EE 1. is rehired, or 2. forfeits all the benefit, which could occur under a DB plan in case of death with no surviving spouse, and which seems very unlikely in a profit-sharing plan.

I agree with rcline46. But if the plan was actually "transferred", then A or B or both should be doing some formal communication describing that transaction.

Carol Calhoun maintains an excellent website with links to many useful items. http://www.benefitsattorney.com/links/Inte...evenue_Service/ Of course, most of the IRS/DOL items on the web are the recent ones. If you need something older, it may take some more digging. Of course, don't forget the usual suspects: http://www.dol.gov/ http://www.irs.gov/ [Edited by pax on 09-07-2000 at 05:42 PM]

I agree with Hank, except for the items discussed in the thread mentioned above, especially the Defense of Marriage Act. There is also another thread that might include some useful discussion: [ http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=451

Here is the thread mentioned above. http://benefitslink.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=6617

When all else fails, try cash. You might also review this thread: http://209.207.198.244/showthread.php?threadid=1805 [Edited by pax on 09-04-2000 at 09:21 AM]

Sounds like well-reasoned advice from Phil and Hank. But a followup, has the ABA or any other legal organization, created a "model QDRO"?

Yes, but watch out for top-heavy.

I agree with Beth.

This is the way I try to summarize this rule: 1. Any benefit whose value exceeds the involuntary cashout limit may not be distributed prior to Normal Retirement without the *participant's* approval. 2. Any plan where the benefit is payable in an annuity form must offer (at least) one J&S option, and the spouse's approval then gets added to (1) above. Yes the Plan must be formally amended to change the limit. Note that the $3500 or $5000 is the largest amount that a plan can use to define its involuntary cashout limit. Smaller amounts are permitted.

New withholding requirement for North Carolina, effective January 1, 2001. http://www.dor.state.nc.us/practitioner/in...es/pd-00-2.html

Sorry if this is stupid comment, but what about deferring payment into the next year?

Not disagreeing with the prior posts, but I'll add another perspective. People in their 20s do not need to be focusing primarily on saving for retirement. Most people have different needs at different points in their lives, and saving is no exception to that rule. Sure, put some aside now, but don't put it all in a vehicle which is intended for retirement savings. Put some aside for the shorter term needs, especially saving for a house and college education for children. Yes, I know that there are vehicles that can be used for both, but what I am discussing primarily is the "mindset" of long-term vs. short-term. Also, don't forget, that you should put some aside to anticipate being a one-earner family with kids. It does not matter if you think that won't happen: odds are very high that it will happen, or that you (more likely, your wife, the mother of your children) will wish it could happen. BTW, congratulations. Marriage is the basic building block of society. I'm always glad to see others joining in.

Try the item immediately before "1998 Pakg 5500 Package 5500 Cover and Y2K Alert", 22 page set of instructions.

It depends. The plan provisions in effect at the time of severance of employment (for whatever reason) are likely what will govern. If the person was vested at that date, then (assuming it is the same plan) that vested benefit should still exist. Most plans contain language, often contained in a preamble, something like this: "..for any participant who terminated employment prior to the effective date of this plan/restatement, the benefit amount and all rights and features thereof will be determined by the terms of the plan as in effect at such termination of employment, and the provisions of this plan/restatement will not apply, unless expressly stated otherwise herein...."

Non-attorney opinion, but as an actuary involved in administration of govt. plans. I agree with Carol's comments. You can certainly elect to have many ERISA provisions in your govt. plan even though not required. But it does tend to complicate the day-to-day administration. For example, some (many?) plans have EE contributions. The rules under IRC 411 for determining the "employee-provided benefit" do not apply to govt. plans, so why complicate the administration with those rules. They may even be in conflict with state law. In my opinion, the most useful ERISA rule to extend to a govt. plan is the SPD requirement. The ERISA goal of disclosure and meaningful communication is worthwhile.

Not so sure about that. What does the plan say? It is usually a good idea to have an affirmative beneficiary designation rather than using "the estate" as the default. Notice that the employee had such a designation (4 kids).

I think you need to be careful. My recollection is that the regs permit you to charge your cost, but not more than 25 cents per page.

So what if they whine! If they can't find the time to do it right now, ask them when they are going to find the time to do it over.

BTW, IRC 404 does not permit a deduction to be based on a violation of 415. I think it is subsection (j) of 404 [Edited by pax on 08-24-2000 at 02:58 PM]

Perhaps being discrete is not the best approach. If the union is hoping to entice others to join, then shouldn't they be engaged in full disclosure? You might try this site for 5500 information: http://www.freeerisa.com/customer/login.asp

I think that the J&S rules of IRC 417 will require a "yes" answer to your last question, but I would be interested in other opinions.

Interesting. Is this comp included in W-2? If so, would that by itself answer the question?