joel

mike----just change the channel.

MJB: if the 401(k) was established by a City of NY agency prior to the 1986 cutoff date when it was grandfathered in, why did the City wait 18 years to offer it to its entire workforce? Joel

Please answer my direct question rather than providing an address. With that said, you know the minute details of why the state of NJ and the City of New York were allowed to continue to run their 403(b) plans notwithstanding the 1986 federal amendment to section 403(b). With your vast knowledge of governmental 403(b) plans surely you know that 403(b) plans must operate for the sole benefit of the participants. Who would dare say that the absence of a diversified investment menu is for the sole benefit of the participants? Would you?

Please cite the NJ law that says general fiduciary principles does not apply.

This proposed Class Action would be brought in NJ State Court under the statutes that govern trusts and fiduciary duties. This is the same statute that governs the fiduciary duties of all of the Trust Funds of NJ including the Defined Benefit pension system which is a public trust fund. With that said, do you feel the Plaintiff would win?

This is a voluntary 403b investment plan. It is run by the NJ Division of Pensions. The Trustees have never adopted an investment menu. All employee contributions are invested in a common stock portfolio invested by the Division of Investment. Q.: I feel a lack of an investment menu is a breach of prudence. Would a Class Action to compel the Trustees to adopt an investment menu succeed?

If their favorite fund was a retail class fund they paid a commission. So it wasn't "bought" it was "sold". It was "favored", not by the buyer, but by the commission salesperson to whom the commission it paid.

Matt Bozek; Would you please cite a case where a plan participant sued a DC plan for not placing retail class funds in the plan's investment line-up?

Matt Bozek: As a percentage, how many DC plans in the nation follow the due diligence steps the Court describes prior to placing retail class funds on the investment menu? If a large plan like Edison International did not it's safe to say that smaller plans also do not perform their due diligence. Once they do they will quickly determine that these harmful investments must be removed from the line-up lest they invite a lawsuit. This is why Tibble vs. Edison International is so vitally important to both ERISA and non-ERISA governmental plans. But, Matt, this is something you have been well aware of.

Matt Bozek; Why did the Court rule that Glenn Tibble, et.al; is entitled to $377,000 in damages?

It's a given that governmental plans are exempt from ERISA. With that said, does it not stand to reason that inasmuch as the states look to ERISA for guidance on prudence rules they would amend their statutes to conform to Tibble? Or, in the alternative, the Boards of Trustees of governmental plans could simply trash their retail class funds in favor of no-load institutional class shares.

My 2 cents, Your question makes the discussion/debate crystal clear---let's continue. Joel

mb: You have a sharp tongue and you will be called on it. You do not own this website so stop behaving as you do! ==================================================================================== Tibble says the menu cannot consist of retail funds when there are institutional shares of the same fund. This is why Tibble was awarded $377,000 in damages. But you already know this, don't you! MB: You appear to be one that makes a living in the retail part of the mutual funds industry but makes sure when investing for his own account never to buy retail. The Prudential retail funds sold to NJ state employees are no where to be found on the investment menu of Prudential's own 401(k) Plan. Why?

According to Tibble it is a breach of prudence to have participants invest in retail price funds and then have a portion of these fees/commissions show up as a credit when the Recordkeeper bills the Plan Trustees for recordkeeping service. This practice, commonly referred to as "revenue sharing" has no place, according to Tibble, in a plan governed by ERISA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: New Jersey State Employees Deferred Compensation Plan (Plan) For its first 25 years the Plan was managed in house by the NJ Division of Pensions and Benefits as Plan Administrator and the Division of Investment as Investment Provider. The investment line-up consisted of 4 separate accounts. Cost to the worker: EIGHT BASIS POINTS!!! This suddenly changed on January 2, 2006 when the Trustees handed over the Plan's operation to Prudential Retirement with its retail funds line-up. How would the NJ Courts decide should a class action, based on Tibble, be filed?

How do we get the states to follow the prudence rules as decided by the 9th Circuit?

Will the High Court's decision apply to governmental plans?

Does the five year holding rule begin when the deceased first opened the account or when the deceased died?

Non-spouse beneficiary inherits a Roth IRA. Are the gains taxable?

A non-spouse inherits a Roth IRA. Are the earnings subject to federal income tax?

George, THANK YOU; Joel

I need a list of states that allow their local governments to opt into the state's plan. Is this list available?

Maybe CREF's schedule D shows the information?

DB plans sport substantially higher annuity income rates than commercial insurers.

Thank you, however, I was referring to the issuance of these QLAC by defined benefit plans where the premium is paid from defined contribution plan and IRA assets. For example: retiree is receiving his/her defined benefit pension and has $500,000 in his defined contribution plan account. The former employer sponsors both plans. Can the defined benefit plan write the QLAC?

Can a QLAC be issued by a public Defined Benefit plan?