Earl

Company has a DC plan, all participate for 2003. Can the DC plan be amended to exclude Key EEs and a DB Plan set up to cover the Keys and a group sufficient to pass coverage/participation/non-disc. without the DC plan still needing the TH min contribution (which would be nondeductible because the DB ded > 25% of pay.) I have looked and find: "1.416 T-6 Q. What is a required aggregation group? A. For purposes of determining whether the plans of an employer are top-heavy for a particular plan year, the required aggregation group includes each plan of the employer in which a key employee participates in the plan year containing the determination date, or any of the four preceding plan years. In addition, each other plan of the employer which, during this period, enables any plan in which a key employee participates to meet the requirements of section 401(a)(4) or 410 is part of the required aggregation group." Its the "4 preceding plan years" that makes me unsure. Would the Keys have to sit out for 5 years and then the DB plan could be set up and not be required to be aggregated? Or is the 4 year look back a reference to the old Top Heavy look back period and is obsolete post 2002 plan year? Thanks

You can do that, however there is probably a separate election in your plan specifying who gets the Safe Harbor (all vs. NHCEs only). You don't mention the year end so it may be too late to amend that provision if it says Safe Harbor to all.

You can use the employer EIN but the tax deposit method (i.e. wire payment vs. mail in a check) attaches to the number. You are begging for a huge issue if you try to add a pension tax deposit to an employer tax deposit.

what's an EAP thanks

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/articl...=102765,00.html I would get a new number. See "apply online now" way at the bottom.

noted. sorry.

Great - He wants to have the 401k for the employee. He would like to defer if possible but I can just tell him he can't till 2007, no problem there. If I exclude Keys from the 401k no aggregation is required for TH. Then I can amend and let him in when the employee is in the DB Plan. If the 3% is not deductible and there is no excise tax, is it never deductible? If the DB Plan is terminated 12/31/06 before the EE enters (and convert to PS for 2007), maybe I can delay the deposit of the 2005 and 2006 TH until 2007 and deduct them in 2007 with the PS (assuming 2007 PS is < 25% of elig pay)? Sound like a plan? I guess I need to research timing requirements for TH min deposits (and the excise tax exemption reference). Thanks alot for this. It is very helpful.

Client has a DB Plan, has no employees, so its Top Heavy.... Hires his first employee and wants to have an immediate eligiblity 401(k) plan. The DB plan contribution exceeds 25% of pay so how does the TH min work? the DB plan has a 2 year wait so the new employee will not be eligible until 01/01/07 so there is the 2004, 2005 & 2006 TH min to worry about. Seems like the client has to make a non-deductible contribution and that an excise tax would apply. Can you specify that the employee is eligible for only a TH min accrual in the DB plan for 2004, 2005 & 2006? If he quits in 2005 he has 2 years of 100% vested TH accruals in a plan he never entered? Thanks for any ideas or information.

Client has a DB Plan, has no employees, so its Top Heavy.... Hires his first employee and wants to have an immediate eligiblity 401(k) plan. The DB plan contribution exceeds 25% of pay so how does the TH min work? the DB plan has a 2 year wait so the new employee will not be eligible until 01/01/07 so there is the 2004, 2005 & 2006 TH min to worry about. Seems like the client has to make a non-deductible contribution and that an excise tax would apply. Can you specify that the employee is eligible for only a TH min accrual in the DB plan for 2004, 2005 & 2006? If he quits in 2005 he has 2 years of 100% vested TH accruals in a plan he never entered? Thanks for any ideas or information.

http://www.corbel.com/news/technicalupdates.asp?ID=204&T=P is a good summary, I think

All together: Ru-dy! Ru-dy! Ru-dy!

I want to hear the story about how the insurance carrier treated Bill like a hero for placing the annuity.

But then your 5500 would "balance" and that would be a red flag! Oh no!

Thanks also. Yes, the rank and file are being paid. The required contribution will be made this month. It is just some additional money to fully fund the owner shortfall that I would like to have more time (actually, the client would like more time...) to fund.

isn't there an issue about having collectibles in segregated accounts. 408m Not sure how that applies to a 1 person plan.

Thanks alot. The receiveable is not really an issue. Putting in money to fully fund the owner's benefit will take a few more months. I guess it is "throw myself on the mercy of the PBGC" time and see what happens.

A plan is terminated and gone through the PBGC 60 day wait period. Now the 180 days to pay period starts. The plan however has a final contribution which the owner cannot make now. Also, he could make up the asset shortfall if he could take until next June to fund and pay his benefit. I know I can get an extension on the 180 days to pay, but how long an extension could I get? He would need about 5 or 6 months. (June/July 05). The minimum funding deadline will not be until 10/15/05. Jan YE. Any thoughts? Thanks.

and tell the HCEs to only defer in the second half of the plan year

If I don't cash my paycheck its still on my W-2

this is it i think Notice_87_13.doc

Thanks for your thoughts. I wouldn't do it if it took an amendment. That's why I am wondering about the current and future status/flexibility/power of the maybe notice. It's important (to me) that you guys are talking amend. It seems implicit that you don't feel the maybe notice has the power I want it to have, generally speaking. (Skip a SH contribution occassionally without a pattern of abuse.) Thanks again.

Do you think the proposed regs (which I have not read) limit the ability to go back and forth? What I would like to do is have fiscal year plans do safe harbor every other year and have the HCEs do two years of deferrals in one plan year. Is this going to far? Thanks alot for your time.

So I didn't understand that the "payroll period" method would include monthly and quarterly even if the actual payroll period is bi-weekly. I think I get it.... Thanks very much.

I have been hearing that there is a "problem" with using a maybe notice and then not making the safe harbor contribution. I am hearing that you "should" amend the plan and remove the safe harbor language rather than announce 30 days before the end of the year that there will not be a contribution (and announce that maybe there will be one for next year). Am I hearing things? What's an administrator to do? Thanks for any comments.

Are annual and per pay period the only options available. I read that in Sal's 2003 guide and am wondering if it has been updated and if quarterly is available. If so, is the funding also due by the end of the quarter following the date of accrual, like per pay period. Thanks