AndyH

Investment return does not affect DB payouts. I'd put it into the plan that contains the residual db money and treat it like an investment gain, so it will get allocated like any other gain. If the account is self directed then I'd use it to pay expenses.

Wouldn't there be PS-58 costs?

But Mike, there are some renowned real estate agents giving this advice! Shirley they know of such things (and will tell).

How'd it get valued for minimum funding purposes? How'd the purchase price get determined? Who paid the mortgage? Taxes? Could be very interesting.

Why would anyone think you are different than a land shark, in SNL early 1980's parlance? Do you bring a free lunch to the meeting? Seriously, why would you think that you should be recommended above others to sell stuff? My alma mater endorses credit cards. The rate is 17%. Nice picture on it. I know why the college endorses it - it gets a kickback. What distinguishes you - one stop selling? Willingess to go to somebody's house? What is unique about that? http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75djaws2.phtml

412(i)'s rule. Hope there's another boot camp soon.

Yes, thanks. Not every buckaroo out there knows this.

The OEE group is not excluded, it is separately tested. How is it going to pass coverage and a(4) with one of the 3 HCEs? We don't have specific numbers here, but that is iffy at best.

Tuni, it sound to me like you need a second opinion from another actuary. Plus, this "summer" stuff is absurd if the margin could be as little as 3%. But I said if. Only one way to know.

I hate when I type too fast. Was that Treasury filings, or Treasury foolings, or Treasury foulings? Blame it on AFTAPs and Notices dependent upon 11th hour guidance. I'm switching to 412(i)'s from now on.

Beautiful. Thank you very much. We missed that somehow.

The regs provide the Model Notice and help with that. The certification to the sponsor and Treasury are separate and the procedure is not addressed by those regs.

Related question: Endangered status certifications are due to be filed today for calendar year plans. Filing must be made with Secretary (of Treasury presumably) and plan sponsor per Code Sec 432(b)(3)(A). Where do Treasury filings get sent? Cannot find anything anywhere that describes this process or provides an address. We've scoured the IRS and Treasury websites and done much Googling. Anybody filed one of these?

Well, I know I'm fighting an uphill battle appealing a Supreme Court decision, but I would continue to argue that the eligibility terms of the plan are (a) anybody who met the original eligibility criteria and (b) anybody named John Doe, assuming the corrective amendment named John Doe as a participant. That would not expand the nonexcludable group except for John Doe because the least restrictive eligibility would be the original people plus John Doe. I don't see how John Doe's hair color, gender, or age/service are relevant if he is not identified by that. If instead the amendment brought in anybody past age x with y months of service then everybody in that group is non-excludable. So I'd appeal that it depends upon the wording of the amendment, as buckaroo was exploring. Any chance of an overturn?

Does the law say 0% somewhere, or just the proposed reg? If not dictated by the law, how would the IRS be justified in treating a first year plan as 100% funded for 412(l) but not for this purpose based upon a proposed reg that is technically effective in 2009?

That sure beats -10%! How'd you like to communicate that to a client. "Well, your plan is presumed to be funded -10% until we finish your vals and you fund the the contribution, so tell anybody desiring a lump sum from you new plan in the interim that they must actually pay you" Thanks.

If the first year is considered 100%, is the second year presumed to be 90%? I have a bunch of those (2007/2008).

If it is paid in time to be deductible, then it reduces comp. If an extension is filed, and the contribution is deposited by the due date for the filing, it is deductible. If it is contributed after the filing due date, it is not currently deductible. But you want it deposited by 9/15 either way to avoid a funding deficiency. I'm not sure how long the extension runs to. If only 8/15 then you can still play the same game and make the deposit between 8/16 and 9/15 (or whatever part of the deposit you want to deduct for 07). One more thing, though. Under the pre-PPA rules - and please take note of Mike's useful caution - next year the deductible amount would be limited to the non-deducted contributon for 2007 plus the minimum for 2008. So you may lose some flexibility for 08.

Hold yee cold horsees. Can't you do the flip flop funding method (designed by those on the left coast with sandals and no snow). Contribute $30K or so by 4/15 and file without extension. Fund the remainder by 9/15 and it is deductible next year me thinks (if the goofball makes enough $$$), and the guy still has enough income to support the deferral this year. What am I missing? Is there a special rule for sole prop's that prevents this that I am unaware of?

Thanks for the comments. Ugghh.

How are people interpreting the distribution requirements of this? It appears to me that blanket distribution is required, but I am seeing indications that some organizations intend to distribute it only to payees. Anyone have insight into how the IRS (or other applicable authorities) view the distribution requirement?

I think the last two items they had to take care in the valuation was the at-risk rules and the effective interest calc. Yesterday Steve told me that they have both of these nailed down and are currently reviewing them in-house. Jim's prepared a beta version of the 2008 val report. Call him and he'll send it to you. GMP, I have the sample report but no calculation element (draft format only). Do you have more? Also, do you have something from them that explains where the target normal cost is going to come from on a pay related plan? Where in val.op or in the database is that number? Steve told us it would be done with the report calculations. Of course I'll check with Steve, but I'd be interested in your perspective or that of other users because of the lack of any user forums.

Wow. Is that true? (Wystar can handle this but has other things to work out) Is there any AFTAP relief expected from the Easter Bunny?

" What about if you write the professional body such as the American Society of Dingbats, Wombats, and Claudican Crustaceans and they write back they have no retirement statistics. " Thanks for making me look up wombat and expand my vocabulary. I already knew what a dingbat was. Somebody else can look up "Claudican" wom·bat –noun any of several stocky, burrowing, herbivorous marsupials of the family Vombatidae, of Australia, about the size of a badger. Many of us could become those on April 1.

Please clarify. I don't understand the question. An existing plan has a non-non-existent liability percent.