AndyH

What is the argument for yes?

Company with DB plan is sold and purchaser wants to cease DB plan. No notices are issued. Under what circumstances is credited service ended, only if it is an asset sale? To put it another way, if a company is sold, yet employees retained, can service be ceased without a 204(h) notice? And does it depend on whether it is a stock or asset sale? This is not my area. Thanks.

Beautiful! That was a regular campfire sing-a-long. Just sing that one in shower a few times and see how quickly they lock you up. http://www.klaatu.org/lyrics/347est_lyrics.html#album1-1

I do not ever remember the name "Billy Paul" before, although clear as day I remember "Me and Mrs. Jones, we got a thing goin on" played over and over and over on my parents new hi tech AM radio in the sparkling new AMC station wagon with wood on the side of it. Lori, my musical interest at that time was limited to trying to determine whether or not KLAATU was really the Beatles.

infidelity bonds? I can feel Harwood coming.

"Billy Paul"? Wow. I had to Google that one. That is one fine juke box memory you have there Mr. CEBS.

50. Nobody else will answer my 415 question 49. He was like an automatic eraser on a typewriter; if you make a shaky comment you get challenged on it right away. ........................add yours..........

kman, if you had answered the questions before 3/15, would an increase in the formula justifying a larger deduction had been possible? You really should respond timely to questions posed by responders.

I think we had one of those as well. I called it Dino the dinosaur and I called the printer room "Jurasic Park".

Yeah, sorry, I mis-spoke and re-reading it my comments makes little sense. What I was trying to say is that you may need (or want) to give the rank and file more than 5%, not to pass the gateway but to pass the test, and you might not want to do this with terminated people. If you had a last day or hours requirement, then you could limit the "gateway only" people to 5% while giving others more. Thanks for the followup.

In hindsight, for this particular year, it makes no difference. But how do you know that next year the other HCE might not want $40,000 so the gateway becomes higher than 5%? If not for the last day or hour requirement, you'd have to give these people the full percentage allocation, not just the gateway.

Any other informed opinions or interpretations or comments out there?

Unless you can exclude somebody by separately testing those who fail to meet the maximim age and service conditions, you must give the gateway to anybody who benefits under the plan. Since gettting the 3% is benefitting, such a person must receive the gateway. Somebody who terminates with less than 501 hours is not statutorily excludable unless they are not benefiting.

Archimage beat me to it.

Right.

unless the plan language precludes that option.

Fred the spreadsheet man can help. Somebody email him? WDIK, I haven't fully researched your last one about the guy one of my study halls was named after yet. Actually it may have been the Church at my college. I think you left out Saint though. This one I can probably figure out, but the word "Uncle" would have sealed it.

Who and what decide what a "consultant" is?

There are a couple of points to consider. First, what, if any, requirements does the document stipulate are required in order to receive a contribution, i.e. is there an hour requirement or last day requirement? Always start by focusing on what the document says. Second, what contribution as a percent of pay does the owner who wants to max out need to get?

What a waste of Harwood and Willie's time that link is!

Tom, have you considered that you might go to jail for copying something that has a secret copyright message embedded into it and then admitting it to all of us? SWHT

Similar question-opinions please. And Blinky's comment below is quite pertinent also: Lump sum paid out 15 years ago. New plan established 10 years ago. Question: How to calculate new 415 limit considering both old plan and new PFEA 415 limits in 2005. Assume employee in question hits 65 in 2005. What we had been doing, based upon an interpretation that I believe came from Mike Preston several years ago, which he reconfirmed for me about 2 years ago as being as valid as any, was to take the prior distribution (lump sum) and bring it forward at the current 417(e) interest rate, converting that to an annuity. The plan's rate is 6% or 417(e) of course. But now the applicable interest rate for 417(e) for 2005 would be 4.89% (with a 2 month lookback). Using this procedure, would we roll forward the prior distribution at 4.89%, 5%, or 5.5%? Or do others think another procedure is necessary? Thanks for any opinions.

Ned, I don't know who you work for, but next to my office building there is an office made up entirely of YUPPIE insurance agents who sell for one fairly prominent ins. company. They all have beemers or something similar, wear clothes that look like the 5 non-straight guys on HBO dressed them, complete with slicked back hair and pricey shades. You know, the ultra yuppie beemer convertible look. Most appear to be under 30. That's OK, but there is a new Yuppie agent that parks in front now and his license plate reads "YACHT". Now thatttttt's outrageous.

Careful bout spendin too much time study'n, mr. jones. Could be that somebody and Mrs. Jones got a thing goin on. p.s. I suppose many are to young to get this. Hopefully mrjones knows it is just a song!

You wasted Harwoods time and Willie's lunch break!