thepensionmaven

Penalty takes too much time and headaches and is up to the reviewer. DFVC is mostly automatic, gratifying and isn't your time worth at least an additional $750?

Difference between billing and actually getting paid?

We had a similar situation last year, filed the original with letter of Reasonable Cause. IRS came back with $4500 penalty letter, client, not knowing what this was for,saved for accountant l, who not knowing what this was, paid the bill. Client then gets IRS abatement. Wants to know if he can get the money back. I told him since he already paid, IRS considers the matter closed.

Regrettably, I believe it would. Have had this same situation multiple times.

Client has sold the assets of their LLC, employees received their last paycheck 9/2/2025 and were obviously notified of the plan closing. The business is not closing, and the new owners do not want the responsibility of the existing plan. Can the plan termination date be 12/31/25 even though the employees were off payroll earlier? In order to calculate the employer contribution, obviously a P&L is needed; I have not yet seen a P&L for less than a 12 month period.

Good point, thanks. Woold not a DFVC filing for the same plan for two consecutive years prompt an audit? We were visiting the DFVC calculator page ready to start, but were prompted with a prior DFVC submission that had not been paid? Have the changed the page and not allowed since apparently not paid? Never seen this before. No DFVC filing had been made for their year of question, 5500-SF filed 10/16 and they want a $750 fee?

Another musing. My client received an audit letter and we are representing them. We have some of the material, asked a two week extension which was granted pre-furlough for and granted. He asked for the information to be received by 10/22 and his reply emailmentioned something about sanctions if material not supplied. Since the furlough, I wonder if I can ask for another extension, I can't really call the gentleman and request another one week extension "because he's on furlough" Would like some suggested wordings here.

Unable to retrieve American Funds Funds Trust Reports have been unable to be produced due to "IT problems with restructuring the Trust Reports to the old platform" and these have not been able to be made available. Since the beginning of October. This will affect some clients who have been waiting for the Trust Reports as I always compare these with clients' records. I consider this a Reasonable Cause, but the communication with IRS usually takes a few months. I have always been advised to wait until all information is available to file rather than just filing nebulously ax the client signs no perjury as he signs Form 5500-SF. Thoughts, comments?

Entirely my fault, I was. not able to get a couple of SFs and EZ done by 10/5 (I understand 10/16 has usually been OK. The filings went though and were marked as "filing received", which is all my software vendor gives on their receipt of filing, with date and acknowledgement ID for both SF and EZ and the client had signed the form October 15, but I assume forgot to send it to me for submission. The EFAST website lists the filing as "filing received" with a copy of the form and the date the client signed it. Since the client obtained the "filing received", and the filing did not go through with the "warning" instead of the "approved" from the software vendor, edit checks, is there anything to worry about, ie a love letter from Rosie the IRS robot?

Thank for information. Would be practical for the IRS "amnesty" program to be done electronically with a credit card, as well; just as DOL DFVC.

Pardon my ignorance, I never understood this. Are they speaking of a TPA filing 5500s for more than 10 clients? If so, how would IRS have this information.

Concerning a profit sharing plan, let's say a participant terminated in 2014 and was paid out in 2017, incurring more than 5 consecutive YOS, was rehired in 2023, worked less than 1000 hrs, even less than 500 hours. Would not this individual enter the plan immediately but not receive a contribution due to hours worked in 2023. Plan says 1000 hours for contribution.

I believe DFVC is capped at $1,500 for a small plan (you did not mention); just hurry up and file before client gets a DOL letter.

Client recently sshowed a copy of his check, no way could we file by 10/15/23. This is a one-participant plan.

Same situation here. Client paid 2022 (yes) contribution 10/15/23. Which year do we file 5330 for? I would think current year, but he did make the contribution, just only one month late. This is first time I have run across this. I always mention to DB clients the diff between minimum funding and deduction.

However, we went from 2022 with no filing, under $250k for owner only; in 2023, employees eligible. Filed 2023 as first year with beginning balance and IRS sent the standard "where is prior year." Took 2 months to straighten out.

In this particular case, the CB does not automatically pass and needs to be adjusted.

Absolutely, just wanted to hear this from another TPA as the question is vague. Client has can balance and 401k, separately pass 401a4 on their own. He was reviewing my 5500s (2023) and thought the answer should be "yes", he may be audited if the answer "no". I mentioned the wording is ambiguous, issue is whether the two plan NEED to be aggregated in order to pass a4.; and not "does the plan pass 401a4. My question, for 2024, the CB does not pass but the 401k does. Which 5500-SF should be answered with a "no".

Am I correct in the fact that, if a client has a DB plan as well as a 401(k) that cover the same participants AND each plan satisfies 401(a) on it's own, the answer is "no"? The clint thinks if we answer no, this indicates the plan(s) out of compliance, which would not be the case.

Absolutely.

I usually put myself down as the person to contact and leave my email. Most clients are clueless when it comes to any of this. This way, I get the return receipt. BTW, I found an actual phone number you can call to check whether a plan actually was filed or not if a receipt can not be found. Contrary to what DOL said in the past, DFVC does track and keep a record.

She was a wonderful person and a great instructor. Met her in person when she came to White Plains on her way to see family, I assume before she passed. Looked up the new version, as mentioned. Subscription for $1,000 a bit steep, but thanks for the suggestion. I need to digest the instructions, no one needs an IRS "love letter".

Got it, thanks. There's really no change for my plans, as I always count eligible participants, whether they defer or not.

Please see attached.changes-for-the-2023-form-5500-and-form-5500-sf-annual-return-reports.pdfchanges-for-the-2023-form-5500-and-form-5500-sf-annual-return-reports.pdf OK, page 4, the exactly what is the change? This is a?DOL fact sheet.

For our clients, that sponsor safe harbor matching contributions, Form 5500-SF (2022) included participants, both beginning of year and end of year, that were eligible to contriubte, but in fact, elected not to. For 2023, we count only participants with account balances in 5a and 5b If only counting participants that are contributing, would not 5a and 5b of form 5500-SF be repeated in c(1) and (c2)? Also, obviously the end of year participants on the 2022 includes those who are eligible, how would you reconcile 2022 with 2023 when the end of 2022 and the beginning of 2023 are not the same? Carr the number through to 2023 and make the adjustment there?