RatherBeGolfing

The preamble touches on it without going into detail on page 31889

I agree, but I think that if you require an email for some form of HR or safety notice that is regularly occurring and not just ad hoc, you should be ok. It is an area where you need to be careful though. I have some clients where this simply would not fly because most of the participants do not understand computers, internet, and email well enough.

Peter, I think thats enough. The compromise from the proposed rule's provision that you could assign an email just for disclosures is that you can use an employer assigned email as long as it has at least some other purpose. As long as it fills some other function as well, you are ok. It is not enough if applied to @shERPA separate server for terminees example though, which requires a private electronic address.

Yes. Its a no go.

Its not a new form though, the only expected changes are the applicable years

Im not so sure about that. Distributions and repayments have to be reported on Form 8915. That is how you determine the taxable portion of the distribution and whether you receive a tax credit to carry back or forward due to payments already made. From what I have seen, there is no place to indicate that the repayment was made to a Roth IRA to negate the fact that a repayment lowers the amount included in income. Im not sure that the discrepancy here requires human review.

Lol. No worries Austin. FWIW, I have been involved in the back and forth with DOL on this issue for many years, and it has taken a lot to get them to move this far.

You are mixing apples and oranges. Your have an obligation to provide the participant with certain documents. You can always provide the documents on paper by mailing them. The DOL is giving you three outs to provide them electronically with a safe harbor. 1. Get participant consent to electronic delivery 2. Default to electronic delivery. The website delivers the communication. delivering the NOIA is just one of the requirements. You do not have an option of sending the NOIA on paper if the actual document has to be accessed electronically. 3. Default to electronic delivery of the communication itself. If you cant/wont do one of the three, you dont get the safe harbor.

Gotcha. Thats an unequivocal NO. First, the safe harbor requires that it is sent electronically after the initial notice. Second, for terminee's the safe harbor requires that you have a personal electronic address. If you fail to request and receive one upon termination (unless the employee has already provided one), the terminee in NOT a covered individual, and the safe harbor does not apply. Third, for reasons stated earlier in this thread, requiring the participant to do more work to accesss disclosures and miss out on the instant notification and on the go availability of the notice is a non starter. Its not, but you can follow most of the steps and email the documents directly under the safe harbor. The hoops and hurdles are to obtain the luxury of not needing participant consent to electronic communication/notification. The biggest issue with your approach is that you want to take the electronic notice out of the equation, which is really the foundation the DOL crafted the rule on. You can default to electronic disclosure because the participant has indicated that they are willing to communicate directly by giving you an electronic address. You have to monitor this electronic address, and if notifications bounce back or become deliverable, you can no longer assume that the participant is willing or able to access communications electronically, and can therefore not rely on the safe harbor. DOL may be ok with your method (without participant consent, I highly doubt it) , but it does not get the reliance of safe harbor.

Still a few out there, and even more that don't know how to use them ? Good point.

You can deliver the words of the notice on paper or email, but you are not really arguing that an email/text and a paper communication are interchangeable are you?

Yea that is the point I was trying to get across yesterday, a paper notice requiring participant to access the document manually through electronic means is a non-starter for the DOL. The point is convenience and ease of access for the participant, not an easy out for the service provider. It may not be evident in the final rule, but its part of the reasoning and discussions we have had with the DOL for the past decade (or longer). Possibly, but only if the electronic address is a smartphone number. What benefit is a QR code if you are using email rather than accessing it via smartphone? It also fails to capture the other benefits of electronic communication, such as instant notification and access to the notification from anywhere. You are not going to carry around a folder of paper communications so that you can access the disclosure website quickly and easily.

Is anyone aware of IRS activity with similar repayments from other disaster distributions like hurricanes or wildfires? Surely there must have been some folks who tried this in the last couple of years...

Are you reading the rule itself or someones summary? The rule covers disclosure/delivery of "covered documents" to "covered individuals". A covered individual (§ 2520.104b-31(b)) For terminated individuals, it also requires (§ 2520.104b-31(g)) No, what you are looking at is the Initial notification of default electronic delivery and right to opt out , which is always delivered on paper. This notice is different from the NOIA you have to deliver when you publish a covered document. A link isn't required, but they want it to be very simple for the participant (§ 2520.104b-31(d)(3)(i)(D))

Or, "any amount required to be included" is there to differentiate between pre-tax and after-tax assets distributed as part of the CRD. If I take $100K as a CRD ($50K from my IRA and $50K from my Roth-IRA) only $50K is required to be included as taxes.

The big give is opt-out rather than opt-in. That is what we have been asking for for a over a decade. I think you are missing the overall point though. It isn't about what what is most efficient or practical for the service providers, it is about making sure that participants get the disclosures and documents in the easiest and most practical way for the participant. While service providers would love the idea of a form letter and posting something on a website, it doesn't benefit the participant. Your proposed situation is pretty much what the DOL does NOT want. They dont want an easy out for RKs that puts it on the participant to do the leg work to get the information. You can send them a paper copy that is in their hands when they open the envelope, or an email with a link that takes them right to the notice/disclosure. They don't want a bunch of menu's and click-through's to get to the right document. For the safe harbor, it is path of least resistance for the participant. You can use any reasonable method you want, you just don't get the benefit of the safe harbor.

It is a safe harbor for electronic disclosures. The whole point of the safe harbor is that electronic communication is the default because of the advantages of electronic communication (accessibility, reducing postage fees, click a link in an email for a document, etc.) There is little value to the participant to get a form letter sent via snailmail every time the RK or TPA uploads a new document. Why not? It is actually not that complicated. The DOL wants communication to be as clear and simple as possible for the participant. We have bugged them for a long time about electronic disclosures as the default (opt-out). The DOL has always expressed concern over access, and has been hesitant to give us an opt-out as default because it could make it more difficult for some participants with limited access or limited computer/internet literacy (AARP's argument against the rule). They don't want you to default to electronic means for communication/disclosure if you don't have an electronic address (email or smartphone number) that you can send to and monitor. You can always use a different method, it just won't be safe harbor.

Yes and no. You cant just say "log on and read". The rule has requirements for how the notice and access has to work. It needs to be very simple, so more like "go to austin3515.com/disclosures/anotherdisclosureyouwontread.pdf" . The document or link also has to be labeled a certain way. Current terminates would need the initial paper disclosure, and you would need to know a good email for them now in order to send the notice of availability. Future terminates, you could make it part of the termination process to deliver the initial notice get a good private email and phone number for future notices. Many small employers may not be able to do a website for disclosures, but could comply with the new email requirements. Once we iron out the wrinkles I think this will be very helpful.

Quick summary of "old" v. "new" safe harbor for electronic disclosure. Both safe harbors are available, new did not replace old. Old safe harbor Opt-in. P or B has to affirmatively consent and demonstrate ability to access information electronically. P is "wired at work". Ability to access electronic information at work (such as email), and use of electronic information must be an integral part of employees duties. Simply providing a company email is NOT enough. New safe harbor Opt-out. Electronic is default unless you specifically asks for paper. Documents are published to a website (or other electronic variations such as an app) and the individual is notified electronically (email, text, or other means) of availability. (proposed rule only said website) Direct delivery via e-mail as an alternative to publishing to a website. The requirements for this option are essentially the same as publishing to a website, except for the combined notice of availability, nut several documents can be delivered with one email. (Proposed rule only allowed for website publishing) An initial paper notice that all further notices will be electronic is required. Company email IS enough P or B can opt out and receive all paper documents (proposed rule had ability to elect document by document) Documents that meet a certain criteria can get a combined annual notice of availability, rather than a separate notice for each document. (proposed rule had an itemized list of documents) Final rule does supersede interim interpretive guidance, FAB 2006-03, FAB 2008-03 (Q&A 7), and Technical Release 2011-03R (Dec. 8, 2011) (TR 2011-03R). Transition period of 18 months. (proposed rule did not have a transition period) Rule is effective 60 days after publication in the federal register, but DOL announced a non-enforcement policy from publication to effective date. (Proposed rule had an effective date of first day of first calendar year following publication of final rule) There is a lot of detail left out of this summary, but as you can see it is very different from the old safe harbor. I would keep my eyes open for a ASPPA asap....

The additional safe harbor is very different from the old safe harbor. It doesn't substantially change the old safe harbor because the purpose of the rule is to add an additional safe harbor, not change the old one. The proposed rule dropped during last year's ASPPA Annual, and the DOL gave us just about every change we asked for in the final rule. I have meetings all morning, but I'll post a longer summary of the new rule later on unless someone beats me to it. The final rule will be published in tomorrow's federal register. The formatting of unpublished rules make them seem much longer, it will be much shorter than 150 pages tomorrow. the actual rule will probably be a page or so, but there is some good information in the commentary as well.

If its a question of "I have no other qualifying expenses left", I agree. The only drawback in that case is cashflow. If its a decision between funding contributions not specifically related to the 56 day period and another expense that qualifies for forgiveness, it is a very different situation. This should be a last resort, not a decision between expense A and Expense B. The vast majority of practitioners should refer this to the client's tax advisor, and should not be handing out advice on PPP loans. This is especially true if you are picking up your own knowledge on the subject from other people's abstracts, even when authored the legendary panda himself

Final Rule released this morning, and is scheduled to be published on 5/27/20 Happy reading!2020-10951.pdf

Ive seen opinions both ways. Im not sold on the suspense account solution, at least not to the point of suggesting or mentioning it to clients. Considering the implications if forgiveness is denied, I'm not going there.

Late to the party, but Florida law recognizes online notaries as of 1/1/2020. To do it, you need to be a currently active notary public, complete and receive certification for a new online education training, and register as an online notary public. https://dos.myflorida.com/sunbiz/other-services/notaries/remote-online-notary-public/

Agreed. Not sure whether the house bill or senate bill are more likely to pass at this point though.