Guest LoloV Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 I am working on testing a plan with different match rates depending on YOS. The service groups and match rates are as follows: 0-3 YOS 0% 4-10 YOS $ for $ up to $1,000 11 + YOS 2$'s for every 1$ up to $667 deferred I know the match formula needs to be tested for "availability" using the coverage testing principles. Following is an example of how I am interpreting the testing requirements for this type of match formula... HCE's HCE% NHCE's NHCE% Coverage Rate Group 1 3 21% 10 29% 138% Rate Group 2 4 29% 15 42% 145% Rate Group 3 7 50% 10 29% 58% Total 14 35 Based on the above I would say Rate Groups 1 and 2 pass but Rate Group 3 fails. If anyone is familiar with this type of match formula and testing requirements, I would appreciate your input. Thanks!
Guest LoloV Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 Sorry, the headings on my example didn't line up... Group 1 has 3 HCE's and 10 NHCE's Group 2 has 4 HCE's and 15 NHCE's and Group 3 has 7 HCE's and 10 NHCE's
Tom Poje Posted October 24, 2002 Posted October 24, 2002 agree that rate group 3 fails (ratio percentage), obviously passes the safe harbor % since it is greater than 50%, so you need to pass average benefits percentage test. for the other groups, my understanding, is that you count those individuals who received at least as much... thus for group 1 you have 14 hce and 35 nhce so 100% rate group 2 how many ees can receive at least the $1000 you have 7 hce and 25 nhce 25/35 / 11/14 90.9%
austin3515 Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 How could zero to three years of service be zero percent? Doesn't that cause a problem? Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
Guest dietpepsi Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 I don't see anywhere where it says you have to pass the ABT if you fall below 70% but are above the safe harbor percentage for a current availability test. Where is that coming into play? Thanks!
MWeddell Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 I don't believe having no match until 4 years of service is a problem. The 410(a) rule that only 1 year of eligibility service (or in one exception 2 years of eligibility service) may be required applies to the whole plan. The concept that the 401(m) portion is tested separately applies to 410(B), not 410(a). This interpretation is not universally held, so you may want to check with your attorney. What you're testing is whether the availability of a higher match rate is a discriminatory benefit, right, or feature. If you walk through the cross-references in the regulations, you'll find that you only need to pass the nondiscriminatory classification test (i.e. coverage testing except not the average benefit percentage test). That means that rate group 3 also passes. Good news!
austin3515 Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 Answer me this - I have immediate eligibility for the 401(k) and evern the match portion of my Plan. Can I then make people wait 4 years to be eligible for the profit sharing? Essentially, the match plan has a three year service requirement, doesn't it? Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
austin3515 Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 DietPepsi - 401(a)(4), general nondiscrimination testing applies when there are different rates for different people. In order to pass this test, each "rate group" must pass 410(B). If a rate group doesn't pass the ratio percentage test, then you may pass the average benefits test. Rate Groups are defined as each HCE, and all other employees with allocation rates at least as great as that HCE. People with rates lower than that, are treated as not benefitting. So if there's 10 HCE's. there could be 10 rate groups (unless of course, as in this example, several HCE's have the same rate). Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
Tom Poje Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 Austin: Diet is correct in regards to BRF (I was thinking of 410(B)) under 1.401(a)(4)-4(B) when testing current availability you satisfy 410(B) without regard to the average benefits percentage test. It is a special provision for BRF testing.
austin3515 Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 So there's different tests - one for contributions and one for different rates? Or am I missing the boat here? Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
Guest LoloV Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 This is the first time I've run across a match formula like this. I read an "Advanced Plan Design Q&A" titled "Matches Based on Length of Service" dated May 27, 1999 regarding this. The example given there does indicate a lower match rate (25%) for 0-5 YOS and 50% for more than 5 YOS. I can see the concern about the first group actually receiving nothing. To be honest, I'm not sure what to do with this. I think I'll give the info I have come up with to the relationship manager and recommend getting some legal advice. Thanks all!
Tom Poje Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 well, the problem is, especially when responding to threads, is jumbling things up. step 1 is 410(B) coverage - the above example might fail the 401(m) portion if you had enough NHCEs in the 0 group and no HCEs in that group. a very likely case. In that situation, you could still pass avergae benefits test - which would be both tests. step 2 is the ADP/ACP test, which again might fail if you have a bunch of NHCEs at 0, as is happening in this case. step 3 is the BRF, which works like the 410(B) with the exception that there is no average benefits % test to worry about. hopefully I haven't missed something in this very brief explanation.
austin3515 Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 So for step 3, all you need to do is pass the nondiscriminatory classification test? Or does it need to pass the ratio percentage test? Also, does the general nondiscrimination test apply because people are getting different rates? Feel free not to respond, this thread is getting old... Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
MWeddell Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 That's right. For step 3, the benefits, rights, and features test, one only need pass the nondiscriminatory classification test, not the average benefit percentage test.
Tom Poje Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 I'll respond, mainly for an explanation reason. you said "does the general nondiscrimination test apply because people are getting different rates?" look at it this way: there are 'always' 3 nondiscrimination test ADP for deferrals (maybe QMACs and QNECs) ACP for match (Maybe QNECS, QMACs and after tas 401(a) for the non-electives. if the plan is a safe harbor plan, you are deemed to pass. (Same logic with a safe harbor 401k - you are simply deemed to pass) so, you have different rate, but they end up getting tested under the ACP test. the acp test is the general nondiscrimination test for matching contributions. as for step 3, the actual regs in 1.401(a)-4 simply says "current availability...is satisfied if....satisfies section 410(B) (w/o regard to the average benefits percentage test)." in other words, pass either ratio or nondiscrimination clssification
Tom Poje Posted October 25, 2002 Posted October 25, 2002 I'll respond, mainly for an explanation reason. you said "does the general nondiscrimination test apply because people are getting different rates?" look at it this way: there are 'always' 3 nondiscrimination test ADP for deferrals (maybe QMACs and QNECs) ACP for match (Maybe QNECS, QMACs and after tas 401(a) for the non-electives. if the plan is a safe harbor plan, you are deemed to pass. (Same logic with a safe harbor 401k - you are simply deemed to pass) so, you have different rate, but they end up getting tested under the ACP test. the acp test is the general nondiscrimination test for matching contributions. as for step 3, the actual regs in 1.401(a)-4 simply says "current availability...is satisfied if....satisfies section 410(B) (w/o regard to the average benefits percentage test)." in other words, pass either ratio or nondiscrimination clssification
austin3515 Posted October 26, 2002 Posted October 26, 2002 You guys are the bomb! Thanks Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
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