Different EIN for 5500 and Form 945 filings?

[Guest Commuter Rex]

It would appear that because the 401k plan had not had tax withholdings (due to no taxable distributions) for over 3 years...well the IRS took away the EIN for the plan. I was just told the EIN is now "unassigned" and I can't have it back. (If I can come up with the original mailed IRS notice of the EIN assignment from many years ago, then I could get it back.) This is despite the fact that the annual 5500's have always (and will) use this EIN. I have gone around in circles with 3 people at IRS and all came to the same conclusion; the 5500's are handled by a different group at the IRS and there is no communication between the two so I now have to get a new EIN for the plan so I can record future Form 945 withholdings from distributions.

Well this sounds fine from within the tax-deposit section of the IRS, but I'd like to keep this job and I'm very worried about this "solution". Does anyone know what to do about the pending confusion with the 5500? What is the DOL's take on this?

Oh, and of course the 2nd quarter 2002 distribution withholding/945 we sent in was not recorded with the plan or even under the plan sponsor EIN. It is floating around somewhere and to get credited to the plan I will have to get a new EIN assigned... So I need to know either how to get this corrected, or if it really is ok to have different EIN's for same plan.

(For the record, their advice is if you have no activity during a year, still send in an annual 945 with $ 0.00, just to let them know you're still alive. Why don't they tell us these things when we got the EIN?)

Thanks for any encouraging words.

[WDIK]

Please clarify. When you refer to the "EIN for the plan" do you mean an identification number for the trust that you show on Schedule P? The reason that I am confused is "the fact that the annual 5500's have always (and will) use this EIN" sounds like you are referring to the identification number of the plan sponsor which would be used for the Form 5500 filing.

[Guest Commuter Rex]

The EIN for plan sponsor is different and remains constant. What I refer to is the Trust EIN listed in Schedule P of the 5500.

Thanks

[maverick]

After running into this problem several times I stopped using the trust EIN for 945 reporting. All 945's are now prepared using the employer's EIN. Just make sure the tax is deposited using the ER's EIN.

[WDIK]

Does anyone know what to do about the pending confusion with the 5500?

I wouldn't be worried about reporting a different trust ID number on the Schedule P. As you noted, there seems to be no coordianation between the different agencies, and I don't think that any confusion with the 5500 will result.

So I need to know either how to get this corrected, or if it really is ok to have different EIN's for same plan.

I think that the issue here is to make sure that the tax withholdings are reconciled with whatever trust number they were deposited under. If it can't be done by a 945 filing, you will probably have to write a letter explaining the situation so that the taxes can be properly credited.

For the record, their advice is if you have no activity during a year, still send in an annual 945 with $ 0.00, just to let them know you're still alive.

Are there really over 1 billion numbers already assigned so that they need to start reusing old numbers?

[ljr]

Maverick - I'd be careful using the employer's EIN for the plan's withholding. We had a situation where this caused the plan's withholding and the employer's withholding from pay to get confused at the IRS. Resolution is pending - still!

[maverick]

ljr:

Comment noted. Even though 941 payroll withholding and 945 distribution withholding are reported correctly, it doesn't surprise me that the IRS could mix them up somehow.

During my 20 years in the Marines, I frequently heard the comment "Close enough for government work.".

[Earl]

If the ERs # is used don't you have to pay electronically (if ER's # is required to pay electronically)? Do you set up a plan account for that process?

Stale numbers, plan name changes, MP Plans going away... This has been a headache for me for a while.