Separate EIN for plan required for distributions?

[steve-o]

I have a corporation that made its first distributions (to owners) in 2009 from a Target Plan, a Keogh plan and a DB plan. I don't see where any of these plans applied for separate EINs in the past. Do these plans have to have EINs that are separate from the corporation's EIN in order to complete the 1099-R? Or can they merely file using the corporation's EIN?

[rcline46]

Each of those plans should have had a TRUST EIN assigned. As to the number on the 1099, who made the payment? Does the entity who made the payment file the taxes and prepare the 1099? If so then their EIN will appear on the 1099.

The corporate EIN should NEVER appear on the 1099.

[Kevin C]

We've never had a situation where 1099-R's used the sponsor's EIN, but apparently it happens.

The 2009 Form 5500 instructions, page 51 (Schedule R) reference 1099-R's and Trusts using the EIN of the sponsor or Plan Administrator. It's in the Who Must File section and the instructions for Line 2.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i5500.pdf

It's on page 52 of the .pdf. Sorry, I couldn't get cut and paste to work.

[pmacduff]

While it is definately highly recommended; strongly advisable, in the best interest of the Plan and Sponsor, etc. it is NOT required to have a separate Trust ID (EIN) for the Plan. We have a few "old" profit sharing plans (very few!) that still use the Sponsor EIN on the 1099-R forms. They have very little turnover (translate to very few payouts) and it has worked fine for them.

So while I agree that there should be a Trust ID; if the plan has already made payouts and it is simply a matter of getting the 1099-R forms filed, the Corporate EIN can be used for now (and should be used if any tax withholding was submitted under that number).

If there are more payouts to be made, a new Trust ID could be applied for as necessary (again, highly recommended but not required).

[KJohnson]

From the 1999 ABA JCEB Q&A with the IRS

73. Would you confirm that retirement plan trusts should/must obtain and use a

separate EIN (or Trust Tax Number) for reporting distributions, rather than

using the employer's EIN?

Retirement trusts are required to have their own separate EIN, especially for

purposes of holding assets. Distributions can be reported under the EIN of the

plan sponsor in accordance with published rulings, but that does not eliminate

the need of the trust to have its own EIN.

It was discussed from the podium by the IRS (and not in the published Q&A's) at the 2005 ABA JCEB meeting and here is what Ice Miller reported that the IRS said.

TOPIC COMMENTS

Separate EIN The IRS notes that all trusts of qualified plans must apply for a TIN (taxpayer identification number) distinct from any employer's EIN to identify the trust.

You can use the employer’s EIN for reporting the distribution or the entity that actually pays the distribution (insurance company, brokerage house etc). But you still need the EIN for the Trust. I am not sure that there is any enforcement activity on this.

[steve-o]

Thanks for the knowledge.

[WDIK]

I am not sure that there is any enforcement activity on this.

An unofficial statement made in an unofficial telephone conversation with the IRS a number of years ago: "We really don't care as long as the money is sent in."

[mwyatt]

But

consider the following: this was a major push back in 1997 to have trusts/plans get their own EIN numbers. We diligently applied for our clients to obtain said numbers. Of course we're dealing in the small plan market, where distributions are a random occurrence, so we've now run into the situation where clients have been trying to pay withholding taxes online due to recent distributions only to find out that their numbers assigned back in 1997 were canceled due to no activity. Further, if you go to the online SS-4 application, the IRS now seems to be hedging on whether or not you actually need to apply for a separate Trust EIN.

What is the answer?