Person has no document

[Earl]

Person submitted an application and opened an account but never executed a Plan Document.

Do you think this is correctable under EPCRS?

If not, how would you correct this?

Account was established in 2015 so PPA would be the applicable Plan Document that does not exist.

(And for those of you wondering, Pioneer.)

Thank you

[ETA Consulting LLC]

I've always corrected missing documents in a manner similar to non-amenders. Just document that no document was ever signed or document was signed and misplaced (or whatever the case may be) and ask to be corrected in the same manner as if the Employer had missed the restatement deadline. It's always been a pretty straight-forward VCP submission for the ones I submitted.

Good Luck!

[Flyboyjohn]

Agree with ETA, I file non-adopters same as late amender

[My 2 cents]

Just wondering - if they didn't sign anything, does a plan even exist?

[jpod]

Not sure this would work to allow deductions for any tax year in which there was no plan document or trust agreement by the end of the tax year.

[Earl]

Thank you.

[Flyboyjohn]

I was originally concerned that the IRS might take the position that the plan didn't exist and had they asked we had evidence that a plan document was created and either wasn't signed or a signed copy could not be located but they didn't even ask, just accepted our retroactive documents back to TRA '86.

[Earl]

Thanks, again.

And I only have to go back to 2015. They gave her a blank document and an account application both to complete and in one package. Instructions are to complete and keep the document. So person did not bother with it.

Financial Advisor found problem and wants to fix "by the book."

[RatherBeGolfing]

Ah yes, gotta love the "here is a document, put some X's somewhere and keep the copy" approach.

[Belgarath]

This is off topic, but somewhat related. For you attorneys out there, suppose the client files for bankruptcy. Do you think the bankruptcy Trustee would be successful in asserting that it isn't an ERISA plan, at least for the years prior to a document being signed, regardless of whether the IRS accepts a retroactive document for tax/qualification purposes?

Just curious...

[ETA Consulting LLC]

This is off topic, but somewhat related. For you attorneys out there, suppose the client files for bankruptcy. Do you think the bankruptcy Trustee would be successful in asserting that it isn't an ERISA plan, at least for the years prior to a document being signed, regardless of whether the IRS accepts a retroactive document for tax/qualification purposes?

Just curious...

I don't think so. There was a court case once where an IRA was challenged and deemed (by the court) not to be an IRA because of some hard-written rules in Section 408 that states that when there is a prohibited transaction, then the IRA is no longer an IRA. During that case, the petitioner proved that the IRA owner engaged in a prohibited transaction, and it was therefore no longer an IRA, and the court agreed. This will not work on qualified plans because the court doesn't have the authority to disqualify a plan in a manner similar to an IRA.

Good Luck!

[Fully Vested]

I was originally concerned that the IRS might take the position that the plan didn't exist and had they asked we had evidence that a plan document was created and either wasn't signed or a signed copy could not be located but they didn't even ask, just accepted our retroactive documents back to TRA '86.

Flyboy, Where are you able to find TRA '86 documents? I have a takeover client that is missing their original plan document (first effective in 1997). We use Relius, but they only have documents going back to GUST. Thank you!