Husband still refuses to sign QDRO 15 years later

[bdwell1904]

Divorced in 2003. Exxon Mobil split benefits at time of divorce. I am AP with Approximately $175,000 at time of divorce. Husband has continued to refuse to sign the dro. I have always been able to contact the plan administrator to update my address and let them know that I need to be spoken to in person if they receive anything with my signature on it. He used up his entire portion years ago.  Fast forward.  I try to call the plan administrator and it has changed.  New plan administrator states they have no record of me or my ex. What gives?

WE agreed I would give up a nursing career to stay home and raise our children. I was OK with that due to the fact that I had stake in the retirement. Now I feel like I'm out and over $150k is just gone and not into retirement.

[MoJo]

Was the QDRO signed by the Judge?  Nothing in the rules say a DRO has to be signed by the parties (but it is easier to get a judge to sign it if the parties agree).  If you have a "court order QDRO (signed by the judge and filed) nothing further needs to have been done for the plan administer to process the split.  Whether or not you could get an immediate distribution is subject to the terms of the plan and the terms of the QDRO....

We need more facts, please.

[bdwell1904]

The judge won't sign unless he does.  I already did everything the previous plan administrator said. Filled out the dro, paid the fee sent it through the court.  That's what I got back from the judge. 

[QDROphile]

The status of the order is still confusing.  Are you reporting the the order has not been issued by the court?  Your comment that the judge  will not sign unless your ex signs suggests that the order was presented to the court as a "stipulated" or agreed order or settlement, and the judge is waiting for your ex to express agreement by signing before issuing the order.  This is a matter of local law and procedure.  The plan will not do anything with respect to the terms of the order until it is issued by the court, although the plan seems to recognize you and acknowledge that a domestic relations order in in the works.  What the plan is actually doing as a result of being on notice is uncertain and you cannot rely on the plan protecting your interests.  You may have to change the approach to a contested matter and force the judge to adjudicate rights and issue the order whether or not your ex  agrees or cooperates.  Again, this seems to be a hang-up in your divorce proceeding and is not a matter for the plan administrator.  I am speculating because your explanation lacks sufficient information  for an assessment.

[bdwell1904]

The judge won't sign unless he does.  I already did everything the previous plan administrator said. Filled out the dro, paid the fee sent it through the court.  That's what I got back from the judge. We are a community property state. IDK if that makes a difference. 

The thing I don't understand is how can the previous plan administrator help me with all of this but the present plan administrator say they have no knowledge of me or my ex.

[ESOP Guy]

9 minutes ago, bdwell1904 said:

The judge won't sign unless he does.  I already did everything the previous plan administrator said. Filled out the dro, paid the fee sent it through the court.  That's what I got back from the judge. We are a community property state. IDK if that makes a difference. 

The thing I don't understand is how can the previous plan administrator help me with all of this but the present plan administrator say they have no knowledge of me or my ex.

Hate to say this but if I was the Plan Administrator and there was no order signed by a judge I would say you don't have any rights or benefits.  The DRO isn't a QDRO until the judge signs it and the plan accepts it.  The plan can't accept it until the judge signs it. 

If what you are saying is true and the judge never signed it you need to go back to court.  The plan can't help you in my mind. 

But the best thing you can do is stop focusing on the plan.  If there is no signed order your problem isn't the plan and any effort towards them strikes me as wasted effort.   The focus needs to be on getting a DRO signed by the judge.  

To be clear I am not a lawyer but I advise plenty of plans on QDROs to know if there is no signed order that is the problem. 

[bdwell1904]

Changing my approach is the necessary thing I agree which lead me here. 

1. Not understanding previous plan administrator Vs.  New plan administrator. 

2. Should I just get a lawyer... 

3.I didn't mention previously,  He turns 60 this year and he told our daughter something about them (Exxon Mobil) giving him his portion. Which, since he blew through his years ago,  is about $17.

My daughter and I, about 3 years ago,  ask him about the dro again, he said he would call about it. That's when we found out about something happening at age 60 then.  

Also when he called then to ask whether he should sign the dro,  and how much money was in my Alternate Payee account he got really pissed. Wouldn't tell me what they said and blocked me from all social media. 

I really didn't think too much about it until he and our daughter reconciled due to the fact that he has cancer. 

Now I'm not sure if he will even make it to 60. I feel like either way I need to do something soon. That's why I called and found out they have no information on either of us. 

Thanks for your assistance. 

[bdwell1904]

That is what I will do then.  Go back to court and speak to the judge. Even if I have to get him served. 

[JamesK]

I find the facts to be a bit shocking.  You never should have waited for 15 years to get this straightened out.  One of the responsibilities of the court in a divorce matter is to give orders regarding the division of all marital property such as pension benefits. 

Like you, I don't understand why the court requires your ex's signature on the order unless it is simply a local rule or to ensure that there is agreement on the division of this particular asset.  But the ex should not be able to delay the division for 15 years by being obstinate. 

Where was your lawyer while this was being worked out?  Again, I am shocked but as with all matters, you are the one who needs to see that the matter is taken care of.  Unfortunately, I think you have put your retirement at risk.  I anticipate all sorts of procedural difficulties for having delayed so long in bringing this matter before the court for a final resolution.

[RatherBeGolfing]

This isn't adding up for me.  

9 hours ago, bdwell1904 said:

Exxon Mobil split benefits at time of divorce. I am AP with Approximately $175,000 at time of divorce.

3 hours ago, bdwell1904 said:

Also when he called then to ask whether he should sign the dro,  and how much money was in my Alternate Payee account he got really pissed. Wouldn't tell me what they said and blocked me from all social media. 

 

If the plan designated OP as the AP 15 years ago and continues separate accounting of the assets now, they must have already received an order.  Surely this was not a unilateral decision... 

 

[Adi]

4 minutes ago, RatherBeGolfing said:

This isn't adding up for me.  

If the plan designated OP as the AP 15 years ago and continues separate accounting of the assets now, they must have already received an order.  Surely this was not a unilateral decision... 

 

It's possible the plan received a copy of the divorce decree or something else indicating what the award would be, and so in anticipation of receiving a QDRO, placed a hold on a portion of the participant's benefits.  While the law wouldn't require it to do that, perhaps its QDRO Procedures did. 

[RatherBeGolfing]

1 minute ago, EAM said:

It's possible the plan received a copy of the divorce decree or something else indicating what the award would be, and so in anticipation of receiving a QDRO, placed a hold on a portion of the participant's benefits.  While the law wouldn't require it to do that, perhaps its QDRO Procedures did. 

Sure, it is possible that QDRO procedures could segregate and administratively hold the assets without a court issued DRO, but not for 15 years.

[ERISA §§ 206(d)(3)(H)]

(H)(i) During any period in which the issue of whether a domestic relations order is a qualified domestic relations order is being determined (by the plan administrator, by a court of competent jurisdiction, or otherwise), the plan administrator shall separately account for the amounts (hereinafter in this subparagraph referred to as the ‘‘segregated amounts’’) which would have been payable to the alternate payee during such period if the order had been determined to be a qualified domestic relations order. (ii) If within the 18-month period described in clause (v) the order (or modification thereof) is determined to be a qualified domestic relations order, the plan administrator shall pay the segregated amounts (including any interest thereon) to the person or persons entitled thereto. (iii) If within the 18-month period described in clause (v)— (I) it is determined that the order is not a qualified domestic relations order, or (II) the issue as to whether such order is a qualified domestic relations order is not resolved, then the plan administrator shall pay the segregated amounts (including any interest thereon) to the person or persons who would have been entitled to such amounts if there had been no order. (iv) Any determination that an order is a qualified domestic relations order which is made after the close of the 18-month period described in clause (v) shall be applied prospectively only. (v) For purposes of this subparagraph, the 18-month period described in this clause is the 18-month period beginning with the date on which the first payment would be required to be made under the domestic relations order.

[Kevin C]

I agree with RBG that the details are inconsistent.  What was provided to the plan back in 2003?  I've seen a few divorce decrees that had enough detail in them to meet the requirements to be a QDRO. 

[Pension Dork]

I think your first step should be contacting your old divorce lawyer and get a copy of all the latest DRO/QDRO s/he has on file along with any correspondence from the Plan.  You need to get a clear handle on the true status of this matter.

You need to do this immediately, since without a Qualified DRO, there's nothing in place that establishes you as an Alternate Payee or gives you any rights to any of the Plan benefits.  Your ex could conceivably swoop in and take every penny from the Plan, leaving you with nothing.

Personally, I would find another attorney who is well educated in QDROs to handle this for you quickly. 

By the way, the former Plan Administrator was probably treating your/your ex's account as having a QDRO in process, but if it was never finalized, then the new Plan Administrator is not recognizing it.  Completely normal in their worlds.

Good luck to you!