trust with spouse as sole beneficiary?

[AlbanyConsultant]

I've got a lawyer (naturally) who wants to establish a trust for the sole benefit of his wife as his plan beneficiary.  He's wondering if this requires her consent, since she is technically not directly the beneficiary... but she kind of is ("kind of" isn't his term, of course).  No, I don't know why he's going through all this, or if he's trying on purpose to not have her sign something - I'm trying to get those details.

Any initial thoughts?  Thanks.

[Bird]

Assuming it is a plan that requires a spousal beneficiary for 100% of the benefits, then it is pretty clear.  She's a spouse and has to be the beneficiary, unless she waives.  I don't care if the trust is irrevocable and says she can do whatever she wants - she's still not the beneficiary.

[Larry Starr]

5 hours ago, AlbanyConsultant said:

I've got a lawyer (naturally) who wants to establish a trust for the sole benefit of his wife as his plan beneficiary.  He's wondering if this requires her consent, since she is technically not directly the beneficiary... but she kind of is ("kind of" isn't his term, of course).  No, I don't know why he's going through all this, or if he's trying on purpose to not have her sign something - I'm trying to get those details.

Any initial thoughts?  Thanks.

And even if it doesn't require 100% to the spouse (that is, it provides a J&S as the automatic), the spouse is still the beneficiary for at least 1/2 and her consent will be needed.

[AlbanyConsultant]

The plan doesn't have QJ&S, but I suggested that he get the spouse to sign off because he was putting someone (the executor) between the account and his spouse, and if he wasn't trying to scheme his way out of something, he should have no problem doing that.  Haven't heard anything since then.

[Larry Starr]

3 hours ago, AlbanyConsultant said:

The plan doesn't have QJ&S, but I suggested that he get the spouse to sign off because he was putting someone (the executor) between the account and his spouse, and if he wasn't trying to scheme his way out of something, he should have no problem doing that.  Haven't heard anything since then.

Not suggested: mandatory!  In a non J&S plan the spouse HAS TO BE the beneficiary for 100% of the account (which is why we don't do non J&S; it disinherits the children of a prior marriage).  In order for the spouse NOT to be the bene, the spouse MUST waive spousal rights.  If the spouse does not sign off, then the spouse is legally the beneficiary under ERISA and no other document can change that.