Controlled Group - Affiliated Service Group

[waid10]

Can you help with the following scenario:

P sponsors a QRP.  R and P are related employers, and R's employees participate in P's plan.

C and R are brother-sister companies.  

Just by the nature of C and R being brother-sister, does that by default pull C into the ASG with R and P?  Or would C be part of the ASG only if it satisfies the ASG rules on its own?

Thanks.

[Larry Starr]

30 minutes ago, waid10 said:

Can you help with the following scenario:

P sponsors a QRP.  R and P are related employers, and R's employees participate in P's plan.

C and R are brother-sister companies.  

Just by the nature of C and R being brother-sister, does that by default pull C into the ASG with R and P?  Or would C be part of the ASG only if it satisfies the ASG rules on its own?

Thanks.

I don't even want to think about your question unless we  had the actual ownership percentages and relationships of the employers and owners.  The answers can be very complicated.  OR, you could just buy a subscription to Derrin's book as this is well explained in hundreds of examples.  http://www.employerbook.com/

[waid10]

C and R are owned by the same 4 individuals (25% each).

I didn't think for purposes of my question that the ownership level of R and P mattered.  I am actually not sure of the shared ownership between R and P.  I just know they are in the same ASG.  So my question is: does that fact alone, by default pull C into the ASG with R and P?  Or would C only be in the ASG with P if a proper analysis was done to see if C is in the ASG on its own merits (i.e., apart from merely being brother-sister with R)?

[Larry Starr]

20 hours ago, waid10 said:

C and R are owned by the same 4 individuals (25% each).

I didn't think for purposes of my question that the ownership level of R and P mattered.  I am actually not sure of the shared ownership between R and P.  I just know they are in the same ASG.  So my question is: does that fact alone, by default pull C into the ASG with R and P?  Or would C only be in the ASG with P if a proper analysis was done to see if C is in the ASG on its own merits (i.e., apart from merely being brother-sister with R)?

Sorry, but I can't answer a question that is missing important facts.  It is important to know the relationship between R and  P.  There may or may not be a controlled group between C and the ASG of R & P (assuming there really is an ASG there, which I never would say is true without knowing the facts). It is possible to have a controlled group of R & P, and a SEPARATE controlled group between C & R.  You can't give correct answers without knowing the facts.