Wacko in Winnebago Posted April 11, 2022 Posted April 11, 2022 I read a bunch of cases a while back, but don’t recall seeing this addressed: What is the legal authority that allows an Alternate Payee to immediately take a full disbursement of their portion of the participant's benefit assigned to them through a QDRO, when the participant’s benefit is not in pay status, the participant has not attained the earliest retirement age, and the participant does not otherwise qualify to take a withdrawal from the plan pursuant to the plan's rules.
Effen Posted April 11, 2022 Posted April 11, 2022 Defined benefit or defined contribution? For a DB plan, I would say there isn't one. Todd Flessner 1 The material provided and the opinions expressed in this post are for general informational purposes only and should not be used or relied upon as the basis for any action or inaction. You should obtain appropriate tax, legal, or other professional advice.
CuseFan Posted April 11, 2022 Posted April 11, 2022 An immediate lump sum to the A/P of a QDRO in such instance is only allowable if (1) the QDRO calls for it and (2) the plan allows for it. DB plan documents can allow for QDRO payouts of any amount at any time (but lump sums would be subject to any 436 or top 25 HCE restrictions), regardless of whether the participant is eligible for a distribution. Our pre-approved plans have that as a checkbox option. Todd Flessner, acm_acm and Nate S 3 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
CuseFan Posted April 11, 2022 Posted April 11, 2022 Make sure you are checking the correct section(s) of the plan document or AA. Todd Flessner 1 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
Wacko in Winnebago Posted April 11, 2022 Author Posted April 11, 2022 Sorry, it's a defined contribution (401k) plan.
ESOP Guy Posted April 11, 2022 Posted April 11, 2022 If you have a pdf of the plan document, AA and base document, I would search the words, "Alternate Payee". Most documents make it pretty clear that the AP can be paid immediately if the QDRO calls for it. I guess I have never had anyone question what part of the law says you can write a document like that.
Popular Post Peter Gulia Posted April 11, 2022 Popular Post Posted April 11, 2022 For an ERISA-governed individual-account retirement plan, when an alternate payee may get a QDRO distribution goes like this: A plan must allow a QDRO distribution if the participant is entitled to a distribution under the plan. A plan must allow a QDRO distribution on the later of the participant’s age 50 or the earliest date on which the participant could begin receiving benefits under the plan if the participant separated from service. ERISA § 206(d)(3)(E), 29 U.S.C. § 1056(d)(3) http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:29%20section:1056%20edition:prelim)%20OR%20(granuleid:USC-prelim-title29-section1056)&f=treesort&edition=prelim&num=0&jumpTo=true A plan may provide an alternate payee’s QDRO distribution before the plan provides a distribution to the participant. 26 C.F.R. § 1.401(a)-13(g)(3); https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subject-group-ECFR6f8c3724b50e44d/section-1.401(a)-13#p-1.401(a)-13(g)(3) Whether an individual-account plan provides a QDRO distribution before the participant’s earliest retirement age is a plan-design choice. Luke Bailey, CuseFan, jsample and 2 others 5 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
rocknrolls2 Posted April 12, 2022 Posted April 12, 2022 Building on what Peter has said, in addition, you need to pay particular attention both to what the order says involving distribution as well as the terms of the plan document in determining whether and when an alternate payee may receive a plan distribution. Nate S 1
AMDG Posted April 13, 2022 Posted April 13, 2022 FWIW - I love these message boards! I try to guess at the answer before clicking on the links in the email - and my memory served me well today. A big thank you to everyone who contributes! Bill Presson, R Griffith and Todd Flessner 3
Nate S Posted April 13, 2022 Posted April 13, 2022 6 hours ago, rocknrolls2 said: Building on what Peter has said, in addition, you need to pay particular attention both to what the order says involving distribution as well as the terms of the plan document in determining whether and when an alternate payee may receive a plan distribution. Biggest problem QDRO's have, the order's usage of the words "must", "will", and "have to" when it comes to the terms and conditions of the distribution to the AP. The order can't compel a Plan to do anything that the Plan Document doesn't already allow. As the Plan Document must say within itself, it is controlling in case of any conflict. Todd Flessner 1
Wacko in Winnebago Posted April 13, 2022 Author Posted April 13, 2022 That was where my initial question was rooted, but it was my understanding that the plan documents were required to comply with ERISA (and other relevant statutes), such as the requirement of an anti-alienation provision. Thank you to Mr. Gulia for providing the legal authority I hadn't found.
Jen S Posted April 13, 2022 Posted April 13, 2022 Reverse question of sorts. If the plan provides multiple forms of distribution for APs can the QDRO actually limit those options? For example if a plan provides for a deferred benefit, lump sum payout or single life annuity, could a QDRO specify an immediate disbursement and essentially eliminate the deferred option?
Bri Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 Why wouldn't the AP simply elect what they want from the various available options, rather than trying to force the form of payment through the Order?
Nate S Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 18 hours ago, Jen S said: Reverse question of sorts. If the plan provides multiple forms of distribution for APs can the QDRO actually limit those options? For example if a plan provides for a deferred benefit, lump sum payout or single life annuity, could a QDRO specify an immediate disbursement and essentially eliminate the deferred option? Only if it placed the onus to elect the lump sum payout on the AP, instead of compelling the Plan to make the payment that way.
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