Cross tested 403(b)? Are the rules the same?

[AndyH]

Now the prospect in my earlier post wants the cross tested employer contribution to be in an existing 403(B) plan, or plans. Are the employer contribution non-discrimination testing rules the same for a 403(B) plan that doesn't satisfy the 403(B) safe harbor nondiscrimination rules? Admittedly, I haven't researched this yet. Anyone done this? Are the 403(B) deferrals included in an average benefits test in the same manner as a cross tested DC 401(a)(4) plan with a 401(k) provision if rate groups are not all at 70%?

Are the testing aggregation rules the same for commonly controlled organizations if such organizations are deemed to be under common control? I'm not asking about how the controlled groups are established, just if they are deemed controlled, are they subject to aggregation for the average benefit test component (if there is one) in the same manner as a plan tested under 401(a)(4)?

The one I'm dealing with has maybe 5 pseudo-related organizations, so I'm trying to figure out the "what if's".

[Guest]

Andy,

I've never done it, never fooled with 403(B), etc, but do, for whatever insane reason, have a copy of the 403(B) answer book. sorry, I am a bit swamped at the moment, the one comment I can find says ' the salary reduction portion of the 401(k) plan is included, but it is not clear whether the salary reduction portion of a 403(B) plan is like wise included. (Q3.25 of the second edition)

much of chapter 3 speaks of cross testing, etc, so it looks like much of those rules are the same.

if you havent done it, you might try posting your message on the 403(B) board instead of here.

I just don't know enough about the to offer any advice with confidence.

[AndyH]

Tom, thank you for your comments. I'll start with the 403(B) answer book.