truphao Posted September 30, 2023 Posted September 30, 2023 takeover situation, CB Plan doc refers to "standard" definition for HCEs. 401(k) Plan refers to Top-Paid. Small combo (6-7 total, 2 owners, 1 highly paid non-owner). What does it mean? Which definition prevails? IMHO it boils down to if the highly paid non-owner individual does get the 7.5% Gateway or not?
Jakyasar Posted September 30, 2023 Posted September 30, 2023 If this is for 2022, I do not know the answer but if for 2023, you can simply amend one of the plans now and be done with. Luke Bailey 1
truphao Posted September 30, 2023 Author Posted September 30, 2023 it is for 2022 reviewing and trying to file
Peter Gulia Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 For each plan, does the plan’s sponsor get reliance on an IRS determination letter or opinion letter? Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Peter Gulia Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 Following ERISA § 404(a)(1)(D), the administrator must administer each plan “in accordance with the documents and instruments governing the plan insofar as such documents and instruments are consistent with the provisions of this title [I] and title IV.” What allocation results if the administrator applies each’s plan’s definitions, allocation conditions, and other provisions as each plan’s text provides? Luke Bailey 1 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Bri Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 Isn't there something that says the TPG election must be made by across all plans of the employer to be valid? (Either a regulation or even something in the plan's document.) I always took that to mean that if one of a controlled group's plans didn't have the election, it basically invalidated it across all the plans. Bill Presson and Luke Bailey 2
Popular Post Paul I Posted October 2, 2023 Popular Post Posted October 2, 2023 IRS Notice 97-45 says: VI. CONSISTENCY REQUIREMENT FOR ELECTIONS (1) Consistency requirement — in general. Except as provided in section VI(3) and (4) [related to multi-employer plans], in order to be effective, a top-paid group election made by an employer must apply consistently to the determination years of all plans of the employer that begin with or within the same calendar year. Similarly, except as provided in section VI(3) and (4), in order to be effective, a calendar year data election made by an employer must apply consistently to the determination years of all plans of the employer, other than a plan with a calendar year determination year, that begin within the same calendar year. This also is reflected in IRS's Chapter 6 401k Examination Techniques Using Automated Workpapers The top-paid group election made by an employer must apply consistently to the determination years of all plans of the employer that begin with or within the same calendar year. The election must be reflected in the plan’s documentation (Notice 97-45). Note that this requirement applies to the ability to make the top-paid group election. If either plan does not use the top-paid group election, then neither plan gets to use the top-paid group election. Bri, Jakyasar, CuseFan and 3 others 6
truphao Posted October 2, 2023 Author Posted October 2, 2023 Thank you both Bri and Peter, that answers my question. I knew the election must be consistent across ALL plans (not just retirement plans btw) but I did not know what it means if it is NOT consistent. Appreciate.
Peter Gulia Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 You mean to thank Bri and Paul, who points to the Internal Revenue Service’s nonrule interpretations in Notice 97-45 1997-33 I.R.B. 7 (Aug. 18, 1997). If the administrator interprets either plan’s governing documents to mean something other than what a textual reading alone provides (or to resolve an ambiguity), the administrator might make a record of the reasoning for its interpretation. And if a nonapplication of a top-paid provision either plan’s governing documents arguably provides would lower a participant’s allocation or accrual under either plan, the administrator might want to be thoughtful and careful about the reasoning for its interpretation. That a governing document’s provision does not meet a tax-qualification condition does not, at least not by itself, give a plan’s administrator an excuse from ERISA § 404(a)(1)(D)’s command to administer a plan according to the plan’s governing documents. In my experience, a sensible reading of a plan stated using IRS-preapproved documents often calls for interpreting the plan to provide something other than what a reading of the plan’s text alone seems to provide. irb97-33.pdf Paul I and Jakyasar 1 1 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Bri Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 Good point - sometimes plans will define allocation groups as HCEs and non-HCEs, so changing a definition mid-year has at least the potential to inadvertently but improperly cut back benefits.
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