Bird Posted December 15, 2017 Posted December 15, 2017 Employer has an old (obviously!) SARSEP. No NHCEs contribute. Owner should be allowed catch-up, right? Are top heavy contributions required? I think not...IRS examiner guidelines say: Determine if the plan is top-heavy or is treated as top-heavy and if so, confirm that top-heavy minimum contributions were made. If a the plan is a SARSEP verify that elective contributions made by non-key employees were not used to satisfy top-heavy minimums, but that elective contributions made by key employees (other than catch-up contributions) were used to determine the minimum that non-key employees should receive. How do you feel about it if the owner has already contributed, say, $20,000, but withdraws the excess contributions before 12/31? Ed Snyder
Mike Preston Posted December 15, 2017 Posted December 15, 2017 Agreed with everything until the last line. Withdrawing the excess doesn't mean anything with respect to the top-heavy minimum.
Gary Lesser Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 Yes, top-heavy contributions are required (if the plan is top heavy). Although, the IRS materials you mentioned provides that the catch-up contributions are not taken into account in determining the HCE's ADP rate (which I agree with), only the amount of elective contributions that are in excess of $18,000 (or plan limit if lower) can be treated as catch up contributions. Since no HCEs are participating, owners may make elective contributions up to the catch-up elective contribution limit ($6,000 for 2017). Assuming there are no nonelective contributions to consider, the plan IS top-heavy. Hope this helps. I agree with Mike that the distribution has no bearing.
Bird Posted December 18, 2017 Author Posted December 18, 2017 Thanks, no arguments. But a question, Gary, what did you mean by this? Quote The ADP test does not apply when NHCE do not make elective deferrals in a SARSEP. Ed Snyder
Gary Lesser Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 Quote I meant to say that where there are no NHCE, the ADP test does not apply. I misread the facts, In your, case, the 125%-ADP rate would be zero, and all contributions except for the allowable catch-up would be an excess contribution. Will edit my post to remove that portion. Thanks Bird.
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