ADP / ACP Tests & Match Forfeitures vs. Refund

Can someone clarify when match is forfeited vs when it is refunded when completing ADP and ACP testing?

Scenario - plan matches 25% up to 8%.   Independently both the ADP and ACP tests fail.   We've historically completed ADP and ACP tests "simultaneously" and refunded the respective elective and match to HCE's after leveling.  The permitted ADP for HCE's though falls below the 8% match cap so we're wondering if some match should be forfeited prior to running ACP testing.

So when exactly does match forfeiture come into play when correcting failed ADP and ACP?   In reading today, I came across ASPPA material indicating that non-vested match refund should be forfeited and that after both ADP and ACP are 'corrected' if any HCE's match % is greater than that of the NHCE's that portion should be forfeited.

We are a Relius office and the refunds calculated by the system supports running both tests "simultaneously" and correcting each independently as opposed to running the ADP test, getting refunds and then determining if any match should be forfeited based on those refunds.

This is a citing from another benefitslink posting that seems to support how we've historically been completing these tests:

Based on the info I gathered I came to the following conclusion.

There is no requirement that the ADP test be performed first, followed by forfeiture of related matching contributions if there were excess contributions . Both Treasury Regulations Sections 1.401(m)-2(b)(3)(v)(B) and 1.401(a)(4)-4(e)(3)(iii)(G) indicate that the rate of match is determined after any corrections are made.

IRS officials also agreed with this conclusion (at the conference they indicated they thought most plans utilize the second option - run ACP first. [Q and A #18, 2004 ASPPA Annual Conference]

Thus, aside from any document restrictions, it is recommended to perform the ACP test first, make any corrections necessary, and then perform the ADP test. In this way the HCE might not forfeit any matching contributions.

Thanks Tom, If i have this wording in my plan documents, does it change things:

(e) Ordering of Tests.  The determination of the amount of Excess Aggregate Contributions with respect to any Plan Year shall be made after first determining the Excess Contributions, if any, to be treated as After-Tax Voluntary Contributions due to recharacterization for the Plan Year of any other qualified cash or deferred arrangement (as defined in Code 401(k)) maintained by the Employer that ends with or within the Plan Year.

Is this relative to other plans that may be maintained by the Employer or is it as it seems to read to me - do your ADP test first, make any match adjustment related to that result if there is failure and then do ACP test...   

at first I was going to say yes, but now I'm not so sure. that says if I determined an ADP failure and then decide to treat those ADP failures as after tax, then I run my ACP test, which would make sense, because you can't run an ACP test, then suddenly add after tax after the fact.