In Plan Roth Rollovers vs Roth Conversions

For an in plan Roth rollover, the money can only be converted to Roth if the participant is otherwise eligible for an in-service distribution by law (I realize the events don;t have to be consistent for regular distributions versus in-plan roth rollovers).

Therefore, post conversion, are the amounts pure rollover, and therefore subject to rollover distribution rules?  What about top-heavy treatment?  Is the conversion added back for 5 years as an in-service withdrawal?  Trying to figure out if upon a inp-plan Roth Rollover,  I need a "Roth Rollover-Profit Sharing" the way I know for sure I do upon a Roth conversion.

Any good articles on this?  

austin3515, that was the original rule, but Congress changed the rules awhile back such that as long as the amount is vested, it can be converted, even if it would not otherwise have been eligible for distribution (e.g., pre-tax elective deferrals before age 59-1/2). So to the extent the converted amount was not actually distributable, you have to track the distribution restrictions that attach to the money, even though you may call the Roth account it is in a "rollover account." It's just a label. Really a Roth conversion account, which is better label.

I definitely understand the Roth conversions, if someone is 35 and converts some 401k, it's still 401k and has to be tracked as such.  But let's say the are 62, what then? Can I just call it Roth rollover?  Or do I still have to call it Roth 401k conversion?

That's really my question.

austin3515, got ya. I was thrown off a little by your first paragraph, which seemed to say would need to qualify for distribution.

IRR's are not real distributions, so my guess would be that if your plan did not permit distributions at age 59-1/2, except for rollovers, and a participant age 62 did an IRR of, say, deferral or profit sharing, that, baseline, that money would not be eligible for rollover. I say "baseline," because of course your plan COULD provide that participants may receive in-service distributions at age 59-1/2. So if your plan said, or could be interpreted as saying, that notwithstanding you generally didn't have in-service distributions for amounts other than rollovers, you did after age 59-1/2 for IRR amounts, that would be fine. But complicated.

For top-heavy, the amount has never been distributed, really, so I would think the top-heavy rollover rules would not apply. Maybe there is guidance in one of the notices that addresses.

We would show an In Plan Roth Rollover as a related rollover on our software. It would be included in Top Heavy and would be subject to rollover rules. Since the funds were never actually withdrawn, that's what made sense to us ...