austin3515

Attention Relius Users The name of the mortality table you want is called "20XX Applicable." If you navigate to Data Entry, Tables, Actuarial, Table Entry, pick "Mortality" from drop-down, and then select "2021 Applicable" (for the 2021 table) that table will be displayed. You can then click/drag on the Age and Factor headers which will highlight the rows and you can then copy/paste into Excel!

You can easily convert PDFs to Excel so having in PDF is pretty much just as good. 2021 table if anyone wants it. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-19-67.pdf 2022 table again just to put them both in the same post. This is already html so more of a copy/paste: https://www.irs.gov/irb/2020-51_IRB#NOT-2020-85

OK Pam Shoup on another thread hooked me up and now I have the tables in Relius! But there are 10 2021 tables to choose from. Which one is CBZ using? These are my choices. Nothing seemed to line up with CBZ...

OMG is it possible to like your post 50 times?

Arond and around we go. My newest one is from 2015 and I presume the issue is that we have not downlaoded the tables. My original quesiton on a different thread was where in Relius support website do I download the tables. Bri, do you know where I do that? I really really appreciate everyone's help at here!

1) Where in Relius? 2) It doesn't seem to match the mortality table that Zeller put in the spreadsheet...

I guess I found the 2022 tables. It was not easy find! https://www.irs.gov/irb/2020-51_IRB#NOT-2020-85

Is this it on page 5? https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-22-22.pdf Or is this only for 2023 valuation dates? And which column? Unisex on far right? Another one for 2021, but no unisex one? https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2022-04-28/pdf/2022-06330.pdf Man this is complicated....

Where can I download the mortality tables?

A link perhaps?

How often are these updated? And your saying the 417e table is just straight from the notice? And the CMT rate is just the 1 interest rate, right (the 1.20%)? Where would you get that? I wrote an Excel loan program that automatically pulls in the prime rate from a website. I forgot what the feature is called but the functionality is in Excel to download the contents of a webpage, and then you just have to use a little trickery to get things where you want them to be... If you let me know where to find this, I'd try and automate it, because I personally see a lot of value in being ablet o calculate these things in Excel or in my case Access. But being able to calculate these APR's is the hurdle.

So we asked Relius why we could not get our Lifetime income numbers to work and they said: What they don't mention is WHERE we get the rates. Anyone know? Also would anyone know what the math is to caluclate the benefits if say I needed to do it in Excel?

I didn;t pay for any of those, I just use it for the regs really, and all the IRS notices and Q&A'. the official stuff. Can't justify the EOB plus that as well. But it is tempting.. I also use their Q&A service which is super awesome. As far as I am concerned the fact that they don;t mention it to me is confirmation that its not an issue. They did not say "thou shalt not correct missed deferrals for HCE's because then only HCE's are getting Nonelective Contributions" and therefore it's not an issue. Can I venture a guess that's along the lines of what eSource said?

Where in EPCRS does it indicate that contributions made just for HCE's due failures applicable to HCEs are not going to cause nondiscrimination problems. So HCE's deferral election was not implemented. QNEC / Match make up not required. There must be something in EPCRS that says if I correct for an HCE the correction does not create a nondiscrimination issue. Where is that?

Well that is true and all, but I was only trying to write down the rationale for the provision. And I think my rationale is the explanation (well at least it reconciled it in my head).

Ahh, the failure to provide the opportunity to participate would always be to those who were otherwise excludables, wouldn't it? That's what I was missing! Thanks!!

From EPCRS Appendix A .05(2)(b) "Under this correction method, a plan may not be treated as two separate plans, one covering otherwise excludable employees and the other covering all other employees (as permitted in §1.410(b)-6(b)(3)) in order to reduce the applicable ADP, the corresponding missed deferral, and the required QNEC". This has always made my mind bend in uncomfortable directions because testing everyone together (i.e., not testing OE's separately) always reduces the ADP for the NHCE's and thus reduces the correction. I am never excluding the otherwise excludables "in order to reduce the corection." Excluding the otherwise excludables would INCREASE the correction? Is it possible the authors just don't know anything about running ADP tests?

Anyone have any idea when this will actually hit ?They seemed to be discussing it in the ciontext of 2021 5500s?

You bet, that's it!

Can someone send me a link to the DOL proposal to limit audits to those participants who have balances in the plan? Apparently there was a comment window that closed in November 2021 or something. Someone mentioned it to me but I cannot find anything on google.

The problem is that it will vary from month to month because of the floating interest rates. They gave us a calculator to make sure that if $100 is late to the plan they get every penny of interest (both of them). But helping people project income to retirement? "Oh just modify a mortality table for an interest rate adjustment. Didn't you learn anything in elementary school?"

Right?? Why isn't that an obvious necessity??

yeah that's not practical for my nonactuarial mind 😂 If there was a table I could download once a month from actuaries.com or something with the factors now we're talking about my skill set! I see now that the interest that needs to be used will fluctiate so the APRs will fluctuate. Seems nuts that the DOL wouldn't issue an RMD factor style table for this. What is John Doe the Plumber supposed to do if his money is in Fidelity brokerage accounts?

The more I think about it, the crazier it seems that there are not "safe harbor tables" that we can all use. It seems to me that there should be consistency from plan to plan to make sure there are apples to apples comparisons. One person with $10,000 in 2 separate 401k plans might be told 2 very different things about wwhat their monthly income might be... Especially if the interest assumptions are quite different and the employee is young.

Is anyone aware of where I can get my hands on a table to calculate the lifetime income figures? I have a couple of plans where we're not using Relius, so I want to be able to calculate the disclosures manually. Anyone know where I can get those tables? I mean they must be out there somewhere...