K-t-F

I see your point. Then you are saying that you shouldn't leave it 1/3 to Bob, 1/3 to Suzie, and 1/3 to Tom... that if it proceeds to the secondary beneficiary and if there is more than one it should be left to a trust and let the trust deal with splitting it up to the surviving beneficiaries, or their heirs?

Can a participant assign as the secondary beneficiare his children and literally put on the form "divided equally between my surviving children" or should s/he spell it out with each of their names ... i.e. "in equal shares to Bobby T. Jones, Suzie Orman, and Tom Brokaw"

Amendment for what? The plan I presume is up to date with EGTRRA and GUST. You would need a corp resolution to terminate the plan. You have distributed the funds so there is no $$ left in the plan (again assuming you had the participants complete distribution packages and they received all their account bal since the plan terminated). File the final 5500 come year end and form 5310 (if you need).

Austin is absolutly correct, it is simply a marketing term. Still a full fledged 401k and as such should take into account the possibility that a business, while now a one man show, may have employees in the future. The plan that has a parent as the owner and employs a son or daughter will not have to pass ADP/ACP because all employees are deemed HCEs because of attribution? correct? But since the plan employs the son or daughter it will have to file a 5500... the free pass for the owner only plan does not count... again correct?

So the mom and pop can defer max and the kids can defer next to nothing ... and will pass non-discrimination? Because of attribution and the fact that the kids will be deemed to be HCEs?

If the situation is a 401k and the daughter is eligible to make deferrals but not to receive an employer contribution would they still be able to file an EZ? (Just being the devil here)

what about husband and wife and daughter... daughter not eligible because of 1000 hour requirement, still file EZ?

Soooo... A SE individual has until s/he files their schedule C to make the deferral and employer contribution. Deferrals do not have to be made prior to December 31.

Blinky... did I confuse you? The 3% can be used to satisfy TH but can not also be used as part of the profit sharing formula... I think that is my question. For me I was trying to be fancy. I wanted to have a SH 3% Non elec formula and also use the 3% in the profit sharing formula.... as part of the disparity formula. Guess I cant.

does this pass muster: 1st - pass out 3% SH non-elec 2nd - integrate @ TWB (5.7%>TWB) 3rd - allocate excess to bring HCEs to max 415 limit I can use the 3% SH as part of my employer contribution, the draw back is that there is no vesting on the 3%... 100% vested almost forgot... what if a SH Match.... do I need to give out minimum 3% to all as en ER contribution and then perform my integration, and if anything left allocate the excess? What if there isn't anything left... what if there isnt enough? reduce the amount of the integration? or do I reduce the 3% to 1/2 of the integration (to 2.85%)?

Are monies in a 401(k) plan subject to creditor attachment or does the "anti-assignment rule" of section 401(a)(13) protect one's assets from creditor attachment.

Company A has a SEP for the 2 owners and EEs. Company B wants to put in a Solo (no EEs obviously). As long as A and B are a controlled group the Solo will not fly... correct? I mean if "A" didnt have a SEP it would have to be part of "B"s plan. What if the Solo was a deferral only plan... no ER contribution. Bottom line... can anything work?

ok, what you are saying is that if the CFP wanted to sell the client "ABC Funds", ABC may require that one of thier approved TPAs must be used? That would make sense if the client used ABC's plan document maybe, but if the doc used was the TPA's non-proprietary doc that shouldnt make a diff. Do you think it would be beneficial to come on a little STRONG... before going through any "hoops" answering questions for the potential new client and request that a small questionaire be answered to get a feeling of their desires and intentions? Maybe make the CFP answer the one page quetionaire.... make him do some work. Of course you dont want to make it too difficult and scare them away. I think being a TPA who only has their service to sell you dont want to look arogant. People dont like that and when you are competing for business in todays business world I dont think arogance is the way to be.

I have run into a few CFPs who pick my brain on behalf of a "potential" client only to find that all the free advice got me nothing. What do people do to prevent this scenario... how do others handle these situations? Or is it the cost of doing business?

Thanks again.... this guy needs to talk to a tax professional. All I can do is give him a heads up to his potential obsticles.

I understand everyone's point. What if the situation was this: Bob and Sue have a business, they sell real estate. Bob is the salesman and goes out and meets the client. Together they form "B & S Real Estate" which is a partnership, not incorporated. They do not have their own office but rather sell through the local Century 21. Q/ If Century 21 issues a 1099 to B&S Real Estate could the income be split among Bob and Sue (as partners)? resulting in 2 deferrals and 2 employer contributions? Each would pay SE tax and med and fica. I am guessing if the 1099 was issued to Bob alone this may have less a chance?

Husband and Wife real estate partners... Together they earned $225K. Husband is paid from the real estate office the 1099. Can that income be split between the husband and wife so they can each defer and share in an employer contribution? or would the 1099 have to be paid to a newly established company, the "Mom and Pop Real Estate Company" and then divided the income up amongst each other? A followup question... when you have the partnership as described above and both hub and wife defer $13,000 each, how do you calculate SE income? and SE tax deduction? and all those wonderful taxes? Since they are hub and wife, is there one SE tax deduction?

SO, if company X wants to have a plan it has to allow Company Z EEs to participate. That creates more administration than parent Company Z wants to participate in. Summarize.... No plan for Company X "Defer only" plan still has to pass ADP, correct? I am pretty sure all 4 company X EEs are HCEs

Company X has 4 EEs and is owned by Company Z. All of the EEs in X are salaried. Company Z does not have a 401k plan in place. The EEs of company X want to contribute to a plan.... maybe simply deferrals, no ER contribution or match. Is there any way around this? Would both companies have to have a plan? Deferral only plan?

The fact that the two businesses are not in the same field (i.e. medical practice and sells car batteries) does not make a difference.... he "controls" both companies by virture of his percentage of ownership.

Ok... thanks. What I am getting out of this is nothing new... except for the 457 13k limit which is NOT part of the 402g limit. A participant in a 457 plan can defer 13k and if s/he is part of a qual plan can also defer 13K... correct? can actually end up deferring 26k for the year if it done that way.

I have someone who is part of a 457 plan and wants to establish a Solo 401K plan (I guess he has a side job). He tells me he can make salary deferrals to the 457 and to the 401k which of course would exceed the 402g limit. Is this true? do you not count deferrals to 457 plans as part of the 402g limit? Is it the same rule with 403b plans? (I know, this is the 457 board but I thought you guys would know). A CPA is telling me he has a similar situation where a client can actually end up contribution $41,000 to his 401a plan and defer $16,000 to his 403b for a total of $57,000. Thanks!

Here Here ! How can the Redsox be called pompous... The team worked hard to accomplish what was considered impossible, overcame huge odds to come back from being down 3 games to beat the "pompous" Yankees. The Cards series was just that, a new series, no looking down on anyone.

Some people misunderstand how the catchup works. If during a calendar year a participant deferrs up to the current 402g limit, then they have not made a "Catchup" yet. If that same participant is eligible to make additional deferrals (because they are 50 or older) then the additional deferrals are considered "Catchup" deferrals. Keep within the catchup limit though!

Another showing dominated by the Redsox. D-Lowe showed up and pitched 7 shutout innings. Manny is MVP.... but as Francona said, they were all MVPs. I think we new it from the 4th pitch of the game that these idiots came to win the World Series! St. Louis fans were wonderful, lets not take anything away from them. The best in the National League. Every time their big bats came to the plate I thought "this is the inning they are gonna be on the board and overcome us". I think pitching was the key. I wanted to add that I just heard that the St. Louis club let all (or some) of the Redsox fans outside the park in to see their team win. Wow... that is class.