12AX7

Ok, your concern was for partial termination issues which is perhaps another matter that is separate from the original question. To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe partial termination is a nondiscrimination issue. Partial termination would be based more on the percentage on employment terminations during a period of time. Is that correct?

Where is the potential cutback for former employees? Anyone currently employed would be 100% vested according to the OP?

Yes you can. The amended vesting schedule would only apply for participants that have service as of the date the schedule was amended. There is no cutback for the participants that are not currently in service.

What about BRFs? Are all other provisions of the plans similar?

If you were testing any other component of the plan, you certainly would include deferrals. I assume there are no other plans to be included in the testing group and you appear to be above the safe harbor coverage point for the NHCEs. Tom and ETK do really well at enumerating on these issues.

Elective deferrals were made in the six month period following a hardship distribution. Where elective deferrals need to be returned to the participant by way of refund to the plan sponsor to go through payroll, how are the earnings of the disbursement reported and taxed to the participant? Thanks.

The IRS had already weighed in on this during an ASPPA Q & A. No. 2 is the way.

Take a look at this from the IRS: http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Retirement-Plan-FAQs-regarding-Partial-Plan-Termination Excerpt: An affected employee in a partial termination is generally anyone who left employment for any reason during the plan year in which the partial termination occurred and who still has an account balance under the plan. Some plans wait until an employee has 5 consecutive 1-year breaks in service before he forfeits their nonvested account balance. For these plans, employees who left during the plan year of the partial termination and who have not had 5 consecutive 1-year breaks in service are affected employees. See IRC Section 411(d)(3) and Revenue Ruling 2007-43. Note: Emphasis is mine.

That's why I wear bunny slippers to work . But seriously for a moment, you cannot create custom reports in the FT William admin system which is a big negative. You can create .csv exports of data and create custom reports outside of the system, but I ain't that smart.

Ask a lot of questions before making any decision to switch admin systems. Relius is a well-deveolped system. FT William needs to get up to speed, and has a different approach compared to other existing admin systems.

Thanks Dave for this great tip and all the work you do to make this site a valuable resource.

This may be of assistance: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/qab_021406.pdf

Did the rules change that extended the 415 restrictions to "brother-sister" type arrangements? I'm reading that it applies only to parent-sub groups (greater than 50%). The OP example appears to be brother-sister, but the threshold is not enough either way.

BG, I believe there was an ASAP on this matter a few years back. I read the instructions the same as you. Do you still pass error checks on Relius if you cound the D's on 6a or 6b?

Some documents allow for discrection as to when the match is calculated. Where it is calculated on a per-payroll basis, then the timely deposit rules prevail.

It's also harder to check accuracy of the matching, unless you collect comp/deferral/match information for each payroll, or do the match calc for the client each payroll.

Amend the plan to be more clear.

I can vouch for Bartman. For practical purposes if you're only determining Key/HCE, the system should show them as such because you group them as family members. When I run a Key/HCE report on my admin system, it only shows them as family attribution members, not the attributed ownership percentages. BG, I know you use Relius. Do you get actual attribution percentages on the reports. It's been too long since I used Relius.

Is this for HCE/Key determination? If so, then Mom is HCE/Key. You should be able to code family groups in your administration software. The percentage would not matter unless you are trying to determine ownership attribution under Sec. 1563 for controlled group purposes. There are different rules for that. I'm old and tired too. Hope this helps. Time for evening tea with my cat.

I rarely referred to it. With other online resources, it's easy to find what I'm lookin for.

Not to be your devil's advocate, but that is very unrealistic in the world I live in. I take over a number of plans each year, typically from a bundled provider and more often than not there are errors in the drafting of the EGTRRA document where provisions that were in effect for many years did not make it into the last document because of oversight, lack of quality control, etc. I have a saying. You can pay a lot for something and cry once. Or pay a little and end up crying many times. That cycle will not be broken but you make a good point. After I amend and restate a document, the client must read through the plan document with me and I explain each provision and we compare to how the client administrates the plan. It doesn't surprise me anymore that the prior TPA or service provider could have prevented drafting errors or operational issues.

I don't see how you can do a disrectionary amendment after the (proposed) end of the new plan year. I know it may not be applicable to your situation, but take a look at the instructions for Form 5308, which says in part: All actions necessary to implement the change of plan year, including plan amendment and a resolution of the Board of Directors, if applicable, have been taken on or before the last day of the short period. This would be one of the conditions for automatic approval of the change in plan year. I'm not aware of any other guidance. You could however always submit for a FDL if you believe there was good reason and convince the service.

Andy, I have filed a number of 5500 forms with and without Schedule C. Are you using Relius or other software that does edit checks? If you indicate that there is no Schedule C attacment, it will pass the edit check. Yes, you can also check the status of the filing after it has been completed, but the vendor software is very reliable.

If there is nothing to report, then BG has provided you the answer . You don't always need a Schedule C with a 5500. Let's us know if we're missing something in your question.

Please don't ignore the possibility of an Affiliated Service Group.