Mike Preston

Sure, as long as the amendment doesn't cause a cutback prohibited by 411(d)(6).

1.414(r)-4(b) which appears to point to 1.414(q)-1;Q&A-9(g). Just gotta roll up your sleeves and crawl through the regs.

As long as each plan passes 410(b) without aggregating the other plan (except when determining the ABT) it should be fine. Do you have a cite backing up your position?

This exact topic was recently discussed.

Any other facts you want us to pull out of you? Does the combined plan satisfy the ABT? If so, what are we discussing?

IAWCF

Replace "AND" with "OR". Lots of imprecise language in original post and reply but results are ok with two plans so with only so much time in the day, life goes on.

To add a little fuel to the fire, if there are any employer contributions from B (matching contributions, profit sharing) B can't deduct unless a Plan Sponsor.

I would expect this to sail through VCP.

I would go with all actions taken intending to segregate assets from account by 2.5 months after PYE.

Sounds right.

Cen't be done. Somebody else can provide the cite.

Happens all the time. Sad but true. Somebody has to get up the stones to confront those who made the decision to invest with the cold, hard facts of life when it comes to investing qualified plan monies. If they can't find somebody local to do right by the plan then a quick google search will come up with a bunch of names. While not an endorsement because I have not had a client use them for years, the client might consider contacting Equity Valuation Associates. They need to pay somebody for advice, the sooner the better. Such advice might entail re-allocations of past year's results. It can become quite the quagmire.

Always the year for which it is a corrective payment. But isn't the case being discussed one where the corrective payment is being made before the end of the year?

Yes, it counts for 415 purposes.

I have always understood that the form of SEP is adoptable as late as the due date of the tax return. Nobody argues with the ability to initially adopt a SEP that late. Why would there be any requirement to adopt an amendment/restatement any earlier than an initial adoption?

Is the CB plan a PBGC covered plan?

Then I don't see any problem with the suggested solution.

There is still too much disclarity for my tastes. What year was the April 2017 18k deferral supposedly for? Was it 2016 or 2017?

I'm not sure I agree with the entire premise of this discussion. Worst case: IRS Model SEP and 2017 contributions already made. Solution (well, sort of): adopt prototype SEP before due date of 2017 tax return and implement DB plan in 2017. If 2017 SEP contributions less than or equal to 6% of 415 comp then all is well. If 2017 SEP contributions greater than 6% of 415 comp then fight with 404(a)(7) to determine max deductible contribution to DB plan. What am I missing?

Is that a question?

Talk to your actuary. Every thing you say is correct.

Not for failure to satisfy minimum funding, is it?

Typically they morph from revocable to irrevocable on death.

It is a testament to the level-headedness of the thread's participants. Either that or we just enjoy watching an internet version of Don Quixote play out.