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Can someone point me to the procedure to use the SSA to find missing participants?

No, you do not. Before EGTRRA you would have. This is a deduction to arrive at adjusted gross income. It is not used anywhere on the schedule c.

You have to make two separate sources.

I have a plan that has already terminated and paid everyone out. They have failed ADP. The HCEs all did rollovers to IRAs. Would it be okay to have the refunds come out of the IRAs?

Blinky, one problem with your thought. The 5558s are sent to the IRS. Do you think they communicate this information?

No, you would not calculate the max by deducting deferrals. You can contribute 25% of your SE income plus deferrals. However, to calculate the 25% deduction, there are adjustments made due to self employment taxes. Your true contribution will be right at 20%. You can defer an additional 12,000 for 2003.

I agree with g8er. If your plan is or is going to be top heavy then you probably want to reconsider your plan design.

What is a Uni-K? If the plan is a qualified plan then it can be a shareholder of an S-corp.

I usually add a note to the bottom of sch I saying that I am changing from one basis to another. However, you should be aware that the IRS does want consistency from year to year so you might want to review the last few years' 5500s to see if a change in basis was made recently.

I think I have it figured out. I can restructure the plan into two component plans. One component being those eligible just for SHNEC and the other component being everyone eligible for both. Both of these components would satisfy the designed based safe harbor so I do not have run the general test. Let me know if I am off base here.

Yes, I do understand that part. My thinking is that the 3% SHNEC formula and my other integrated formula could lead me to having to do the general test just as you would for a plan that has a regular PS contribution and a top heavy formula that does not meet the safe harbor requirement of the general test. I am sure I am missing something in my thinking so please give me some guidance.

Yes, I was referring to the one the safe harbor that allows the formula to escape general testing. I forgot to mention that the additional nonelective contribution has a 1000hr/last day requirement. Would this change your answer?

Let's say you have a plan that uses a SHNEC. The plan also has an integrated non-elective contribution. Would this plan design lose the 401(a)(4) safe harbor status since it has two different formulas?

Tom, out of curiosity do you use a different software or your own spreadsheet creation?

That is what I thought. When I was running the test in Relius, however, it would not make the 0% HCE its own rate group. Anyone have any ideas why or how to fix this?

If I give one HCE an allocation rate of 0% and I give two other HCEs an allocation, do I have 2 or 3 rate groups for 401(a)(4) testing purposes?

I believe that deals with non-qualifying assets.

Llandau, I had it right and you had to go and confuse me. Thanks for the excellent clarification, Derrin.

Most prototype documents have the trust provisions written into them therefore there is not a separate trust agreement. However, there is usually an option to not use the trust provisions included and you could use a trust agreement separate from that offered by the prototype.

You are correct. I forgot that the regs state that the identical ownership has to be MORE than 50%. I would agree that since they equal only 50% it is not a controlled group.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you only have to provide participants with those statements only upon request and without charge.

Unless I am misinterpreting your post, it sounds like you are saying that each owns 50% of two companies. This would be a bro-sis controlled group. I can't think of a reason why the two companies being S-corps would matter.

Nope.

Yes, that was my thought too. I was wanting to make sure the ER didn't have the choice to pick in the plan doc to have the RBD after reaching age 70.5 or after termination date.

For participants that are not 5% owners, do the final regs give an employer the option of selecting the RBD as of the date afterthe EE retires (after 70.5) or can the ER make them begin taking RMD as of the RBD after 70.5; or does the ER have to use the RBD after the later of retirement or age 70.5?