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Nobody on this message board can provide helpful answers when you clearly don't understand the facts of your case, use incorrect terms, confuse 401(k) plans with pension plans, and are simply unable to explain your situation. This is not your fault since you are a lay person and not expected to understand this very complicated area of the law. That was your attorney's job. You are using an acronym "DRO" that is a term of art for us. It means "Domestic Relations Order" to us, but we have no idea what it means when you use it. One thing is clear. If the court did not award you part of the other party's pension, you are not going to get it. A QDRO is a method of enforcing a previous court order such as a Judgment of Divorce, or an agreement of the parties incorporated into the Judgment of Divorce. Whether it was a mistaken omission likely doesn't matter at this late date. The underlying document should have spelled out out the terms in detail and not just referred to "all retirement plans". It should have identified the exact names of each plan and the formula to be used by the Plan Administrator to compute your share. I cannot imagine why your ex would agree at this late date to give you anything that he was not required to give you. I cannot even figure out what YOUR retirement in 2020 has to do with your entitlement to your ex's share of his/her pension. You need to hire a lawyer who knows about pension and retirement allocations in divorce cases and can give you an answer to your individual situation. There are no one size fits all answers to be found here.

David is correct. It was in the same thread and sounded like the same issue. I didn't notice the difference in names.

There are two matters. It sounds like he had a RETIREMENT ANNUITY that would pay him a retirement benefit WHILE HE IS ALIVE. If and when he is dies, the RETIREMENT ANNUITY stops. If you were receIving a share of his RETIREMENT ANNUITY, or if you were supposed to receive a share of his RETIREMENT ANNUITY, then your share STOPS AT THE TIME OF HIS DEATH. So you can stop talking about his retirement annuity. One more time - it ended at his death. It cannot be revived by your agreement or by the QDRO. The second matter is a SURVIVOR ANNUITY that pay you AFTER HE DIES. In most cases the SURVIVOR ANNUITY is going to be 50% ot the total amount of the RETIREMENT ANNUITY. So if his RETIREMENT ANNUITY was $1000 a month, then the SURVIVOR ANNUITY will be $500 a month. Do you know what you are getting? Is it the survivor annuity? Are you actually receiving payments every month? You have said "Also divorce states I get half of the pension plan. We also both agreed I get half of his annuity." These terms have no meaning to me or to the other person who responded to you. You were asked to explain and you did not. I am not willing trying to figure out what you are talking about when you obviously can't understand the language. I am pretty sure you have received correspondence from the Plan that explains everything to you. So, once again I suggest you HIRE A LAWYER who can help . . I offered to try to find someone for you if you tell me where you live, but you did not take me up on that offer. You can contact me at my email - marylandmediator@gmail.com if you wish. It does matter what you and your husband agreed, or what the QDRO said about his retirement annuity. After his death the retirement annuity goes away; it stops, and there is nothing more to talk about. At that point the survivor annuity kicks in. The survivor annuity is based either on the QDRO setting forth the Plan's obligations to you as a FORMER SPOUSE, or the Federal Law setting forth the Plan's obligation to you under ERISA and without regard to the QDRO. It may be that the QDRO was superseded your remarriage. DSG

There are about 200,000 pension and retirement plans in the US. They do not all have the same provisions. David is correct that you have not explained the difference between his pension and his annuity. Very often defined contribution plans refer to their benefits "annuities". This is an incorrect use of that term. Annuities are generally associated with defined benefit plans. Union plans are frequently guilty of this mistake. A QDRO is not a document that is used to waive pension and retirement benefits. It is a document that is used to award pension and retirement benefits. Since you husband has died, there are no pension or annuity benefits to discuss or receive. If he had awarded you a share of his pension benefits they would have terminated on his death. There are only SURVIVOR ANNUITY benefits that are designed to continue to pay benefits to you as his former spouse after his death . If you were married to him at the time of his death, and it this is and ERISA qualified plan (rather then a Federal government plan or a State, County or municipal plan where the rules might be otherwise), you would be entitled by law to a survivor annuity benefit and in many cases the default is 50% of the amount of the pension he was receiving while he was alive. So if you are receiving 50% of what his pension has been, they you are receiving the correct amount. This would have nothing to do with the divorce. If for example the Judgment of Divorce or the QDRO did not award you a survivor annuity, the your right to that survivor annuity would terminate a the time of the divorce; but it would be reinstituted at the time of your remarriage. And all of the foregoing may depend on whether he died before or after his retirement. So unfortunately, since you are unable to articulate and explain the exact situation, there is nothing at all that we can do to assist you. You need to find an attorney with some familiarity with this complex area of the law. Tell me where you look and I will try to find someone to help you.

I was indeed being totally sarcastic. Reading the Code and Regs so many decades ago ended by thoughts of becoming a CPA. The law suited me better, but reading Revenue Rulings, as I occasionally must, brings back the nightmares. David

Now I understand: Glad I don't have to deal with this stuff. I assume this is the guideline for what you need to do in order to avoid having a QJSA in connection with a defined contribution plan? 第一部分 第401节-合格的退休金，利润分享和股票红利计划 （同样§§401（a）（11），417; 26 CFR 1.401（a）-20。） 在确定的供款计划下将遗属年金要求应用于延期年金合同。 Rul牧师2012 –3 问题 当延期年金适用于《内部税收法》第401（a）（11）和417条中所述的合格联合和遗属年金（“ QJSA”）和退休前遗属合格年金（“ QPSA”）规则如何适用在下述情况下，根据利润共享计划购买了合同？ 情况1 公司A赞助计划X，这是一项符合以下条件的获利分享计划 §401（a）具有合格的现金或§401（k）中所述的递延安排。计划X的任何部分都不是员工持股计划。计划X规定了选举延期和匹配供款。 计划X的参与者被允许在计划可提供的任何投资选择（包括由保险公司签发的递延年金合同）中指导其选择性递延和匹配供款账户的投资。该计划按投资和捐款来源分别核算所有金额。 计划X下没有其他年金选项，该计划不是另一计划的资产或利益的直接或间接受让方。 计划X参与者在延期年金合同中的投资金额在投资时用于购买合同，该合同规定从第一个月的第一天开始付款，该月的付款从参与者退休或达到年龄的较晚日期开始65岁以下的人（除非是拥有5％所有权的参与者，否则规定了较早的开始日期） §416，在70½岁之后退休）。递延年金合同下的应付金额固定为在第一期的第一天的第一天，该天根据合同支付了该金额（年金起始日期）。递延年金下的应付金额 年金起始日的合同取决于该日合同下的累计金额，以及用于确定该日年金购买率的精算假设（包括利率和死亡率假设），但要遵守最低购买率保证集在合同中。在延期年金合同中投资的金额可以在年金开始日期之前的任何时间转移到其他投资中。 通常，计划X下的延期年金合同以多种寿险年金形式之一支付给付，这些寿险年金形式可以在年金开始日结束的180天期间内选择，但参加者可以在年金开始日之前的任何时间选择日期，以单笔付款。如果参加者在年金开始日期未结婚，并且是50％的共同年金和遗属年金（尚存的配偶作为共同年金），则如果不选择其他形式，则付款方式为终身纯年金。 ）在精算上等同于 在该日期已婚的参与者的情况。如果参加者在年金开始日期结婚，并且参加者选择了与共同生还者作为共同年金的共同年金和幸存者年金形式不同的终身年金表，并且获得者的年金不少于联合年金金额的50％或100％以上。因此，例如，如果参与者选择满足第417（g）条所述合格合格的遗属年金（“ QOSA”）定义的年金，则无需配偶同意。 计划X规定，如果参与者在延期年金合同下的年金起始日期之前去世，则该参与者的尚存配偶（或者，如果没有尚存配偶，则该参与者的指定受益人）将获得与不可撤销的应计福利相等的死亡利益。根据合同规定，截至死亡之日。递延年金合同项下的不可剥夺的应计收益是合同价值，其中考虑了100％的选举递延款项和对等供款。如果是已婚参加者，则死亡抚恤金将以年金的形式支付给在世的配偶，以其在世的终身（除非该在世的配偶选择单笔付款）。 对于未投资在延期年金合同中的金额，计划X规定，在参与者死亡时，应在以下情况下支付参与者的不可没收的应计收益（由计划由于持有的未偿还的参与者贷款而持有的任何抵押权益减少）。参加者的尚存配偶全额（或，如果没有尚存的配偶或尚存的配偶经公证，则为指定的受益人）。 参与者P投资了部分计划X的延期选修和

Thank you Larry.

Trust me. If the husband has $600,000 in a 401(k) Plan, the wife will want her $300,000 in a lump sum rollover (or taxable distribution but no 10% penalty) as soon after the divorce as possible so that she can invest with her financial advisor as she deems appropriate. She is NOT going to want to wait for an annuitized payout that will commence at some uncertain point in the future (or can it be accelerated like a shared allocation of a defined benefit plan), perhaps long after the divorce is final. She is not going to be happy to find out that her ex-husband elected a life only annuity so that her share of the annuity will end on his death which might occur within a year or two leaving her with less than she is entitled to. (And what happens to the balance in the annuity "account"?) She is going to want to want QJSA and a QPRA elections, but if the husband made the election prior to the divorce and was not required to make those elections for his then current wife, and if the non-election cannot be changed by a QDRO, she will be in serious trouble. And she is also going to insist on being named as the death benefit beneficiary of the annuity if and to the extent that is an option. In the world of QDROs we almost never deal with annuity payouts of defined contribution plans. It's almost always cash at the time of divorce. I have seen a few cases where the Plan will reallocate the annuity between the parties making the adjustments necessary to account for each party life expectancy. Also note that pension and retirement accounts are deemed at law to be "property" and not income (even though when they are in pay status they look, feel and smell like income). Note also that court's don't generally have jurisdiction to award alimony as a substitute for property, although the parties have often done that as part of a settlement agreement - helped along by the fact that prior to January 1, 2019, the income tax consequences were the same in either case. Unfortunately, the TCJA of 2017 eliminated the deductibility of alimony by the payor and made it not taxable to the payee, so it is no longer possible to use alimony as a workaround that would have the same tax consequences as an annuity payout to each party of his/her share of a defined contribution plan. The malpractice exposure for family lawyers could be enormous. David

Thank you. Just what I needed. The fog has lifted. David

I am often asked, outside of a divorce context, whether or not a Participant in a defined contribution plan needs to notify and/or obtain consent from his spouse before: (i) making a loan; (ii) taking a hardship distribution; (iii) rolling over Plan benefits to an IRA or other qualified Plan account; or, (iv) taking a taxable distribution. I know how it works with a Federal TSP Plan, but I cannot find a definitive answer or a reference to any applicable statute as it relates to 401(k), profit sharing, 403(b), ESOP, or other form of defined contribution plan, or with respect to an IRA. . Much of what I see says that it depends on the Plan documents. Any ideas? David

No, Larry. The original DRO called for a lump sum and that was not an option. It seems that the only option NOW is a lump sum. But in all events a NEW QDRO will be required.

It is not clear from your narrative what happened to the QDRO when it was received by the TPA. They would normally have responded and rejected it. But whether that was done or not, I would contact the attorneys and the parties involved and tell them what has happened and suggest that they need to submit an Amended QDRO that conforms to the current options available under the Plan and the terms of their Agreement. I have never seen any law providing that a defective QDRO can suddenly become acceptable when there is a change in the Plan, especially when 14 years have elapsed from the date of the QDRO. There are many states where the Court lacks jurisdiction to issue an Amended QDRO, so the matter may be moot. I think that pursuant to 29 USC 1002(8) you have an affirmative duty to act as a fiduciary toward the Alternate Payee/beneficiary as well as the Participant, and you must make reasonable efforts to resolve the matter.

Your response does not address my question that will arise in a divorce context only. I am not concerned about the lifetime illustration. Ex: The parties are married but there are storm clouds on the horizon. Can the Participant husband elect an annuitized payout of his DC plan account BEFORE THE DIVORCE AND BEFORE HE RETIRES? If he can do so, will that election be superseded by a QDRO directing that the Alternate Payee wife receive a lump sum rollover or taxable distribution? Or must the QDRO provide the Alternate Payee with only one option, a portion of the annuity on an if, and when paid basis? Will a life annuity be the only option, or will some form of QJSA be available? The answer to these questions may profoundly change the way retirement assets are addressed in divorce cases.

The SECURE Act implements a new requirement on defined contribution plans, such as 401(k), profit sharing, and ERISA covered 403(b). The requirement states that a participant’s statement must not only provide the current value, it must also state the lifetime income that could be derived from the value by purchasing a lifetime annuity. The Department of Labor (DOL) still needs to finalize details on how this formula will work. This requirement will go into effect 12 months after the DOL issues guidance. So somebody out there is looking a the possibility of a payout in a form other than a lump sum. So I don't understand your distinction between an "investment" and a benefit.

The act provides in pertinent part: "SEC. 109. PORTABILITY OF LIFETIME INCOME OPTIONS. (a) In General.—Subsection (a) of section 401 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by inserting after paragraph (37) the following new paragraph: “(38) PORTABILITY OF LIFETIME INCOME.— “(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as may be otherwise provided by regulations, a trust forming part of a defined contribution plan shall not be treated as failing to constitute a qualified trust under this section solely by reason of allowing— “(i) qualified distributions of a lifetime income investment, or “(ii) distributions of a lifetime income investment in the form of a qualified plan distribution annuity contract, on or after the date that is 90 days prior to the date on which such lifetime income investment is no longer authorized to be held as an investment option under the plan." Will this result in a 401(k) Plan being treated like a defined benefit plan (with an annuitized payout to the Alternate Payee) rather than a defined contribution plan (with a lump sum rollover or distribution to the Alternate Payee)? If the former, will is look more like a separate interest allocation determined as of the date of the divorce (or some other specified date), or like a shared interest allocation if as and when the Participant goes into payout status? More questions. Will the Participant be able to take loans from his share? Will the Alternate Payee be able to take loans from her share? Will you Plan Administrators have to prepare for the possibility that you will inherit and have to deal with an entire new class of benefit recipients for a very long time in the future? You would have thought somebody would have given some thought to these issues. Oh....wait....there is no chance of that level of forethought. David

I suggested that the Participant might elect an annuity payout of his 401(k) before the divorce became final and before a QDRO was submitted to the Plan Administrator. There are a number of questions. First is whether the Alternate Payee would not have the right to receive a lump sum rollover or distribution. Second, is how do you compute the Alternate Payee's share if, for example, at the time of divorce the Participant has $100,000 in his 401(k) (all marital), and he continues to work another 10 years and by that time the value of his 401(k) is up to $200,000. Third, if the Alternate Payee will receive her share as an annuity, and she dies, what will happen to her unpaid share, and how can that be determined if it's a life annuity unless the plan creates a separate account for the Alternate Payee right at the beginning. Fourth, will the Alternate Payee have the right to commence her annuitized payments whenever she wants to , or will she be bound to wait if, and and when, the Participant starts to take his share. Fifth, will the Plan adjust the Alternate Payee's share for gains, losses and investment experience? Sixth, what type annuity options will be available to the Alternate Payee? Seventh, will the Alternate Payee be able to name a beneficiary for his/her unpaid share, or will it revert to the Plan? David

I have been searching in vain for discussions concerning the impact of the SECURE Act on the allocation of pension and/or retirement benefits. Ex: May a Participant in a 401(k) Plan elect an annuitized payout of his 401(k) Plan account prior to the divorce and thereby deprive the Alternate Payee of the ability to elect an immediate lump sum tax free rollover or a taxable distribution? Thanks, David

I think David is correct that you will need a second QDRO rather than an Amended QDRO. In Missouri a QDRO can be used to collect child support arrears. See the 4 cases cited at https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_sdt=4%2C26&as_vis=1&q=qdro+collection&oq= The other point you raise deals with the ability of the Court to enter a QDRO that orders the payment of more than the current amount due in order to cover future child support obligations. The answer will depend on the law in Missouri with respect to sequestration, that is, a request that additional funds over and above the amount then due be paid over to the Registry of the Court, or to the appropriate Child Support Collection Agency, for the purpose of making payments that will become due and payable in the future. We can do that in Maryland. The law in Missouri can be found at https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_sdt=4%2C26&as_vis=1&q="child+support"+sequestration&btnG= I will leave it to you research the answer to the question. David

The problem is that even though the QDRO's have not yet been entered for the pension and the 401(k) Plans, the law in many states holds that she actually is the beneficial owner of the interest awarded to her in these benefit plans, and that you hold them as constructive trustee for her benefit and have a fiduciary duty toward her. This also leads to the conclusion that she is entitled to the gains, losses and investment experience with respect to her original share of the 401(k) Plan. See the attached Memo that deals with both of these issues. Proving the increase in the value of the 401(k) is another issue. See 2 additional Memos attached. Note that these Memo's were prepared from the perspective of Maryland law and may or may not apply in your state. In Maryland a QDRO is viewed as an enforcement tool, like an attachment or garnishment that can be entered at any time, even many years after the entry of the Judgment of Divorce. Other states may view QDROs in a different light and impose a limitation that precludes their entry after a certain period of time (statute of limitations). Some jurisdictions may hold that the court loses jurisdiction to address the entry of a QDRO. Another problem is that when you retire, the Plan Administrator may ask you to fill out a form that asks (with respect to your pension) whether or not you have been divorced and whether or not there is a court order awarding retirement or survivor annuity benefits to a former spouse. In most jurisdictions, if you had a written Agreement with respect to the pension allocation, and if that Agreement is incorporated into the Judgment of Divorce, then the Agreement is deemed to be an Order of the Court and enforceable as such. If the Plan has knowledge of this it will become very nervous about paying out retirement benefits to you that may belong to your ex-wife and may refuse to pay any payments to you until the matter is resolved. Note that Plans are not required to do this, but they don't want to get drawn into court battles and find it easier to put pressure on you. Yet another issue is what will happen is you remarry and then retire and name your current spouse to receive your retirement annuity benefits. Under those circumstances (and if we are talking about an ERISA qualified plan), your new spouse becomes vested in your survivor annuity benefits and your former spouse will not receive them regardless of any subsequently issued QDRO. See, e.g., these cases: in Hopkins v. AT&T Global Information Solutions at http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9954117838131396049&q=hopkins+at%26T+global&hl=en&as_sdt=2,9 followed by the 5th Circuit in 1999 Rivers v. Central and South West Corporation at http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2296953953561556363&q=rivers+central+and+south+west&hl=en&as_sdt=2,9: “This Circuit agrees with the Fourth Circuit's decision in Hopkins and adopts its rationale. Rivers failed to protect her rights in Franklin's pension plan by neglecting to obtain a QDRO prior to Franklin's retirement date. Consequently, Franklin's pension benefits irrevocably vested in Mrs. Franklin on the date of his retirement and Rivers is forever barred from acquiring an interest in Franklin's pension plan.” To the same effect see Dahl v. Aerospace Employees’ Retirement Plan, a 2015 case from the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia (and cases cited therein) - https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3487596170773082469&q=dahl+v.+aerospace&hl=en&lr=lang_en&as_sdt=20000003&as_vis=1 The bottom line is that burying your head in the sand and hope she predeceases may not make all of these issues go away. Even is YOU die before she does, the Pension Protection Act of 2006 will allow the Court to enter a post-mortem (after death) QDRO, so your estate may have to deal with these issues after your death. I have assumed that you are covered by a regular US business plan that is one of the 960,000 or so Plans subject to a Federal Law known as the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 - ERISA. If you are a participant in a Federal, state, county or municipal plan then ERISA will not apply but some features will be the same. So you need to find a lawyer in your jurisdiction who is conversant with this very esoteric area of law and who can tell you where you stand if you do nothing, and what you have to gain or lose if you proceed to have the QDROs prepared and submitted to the court. BTW, your ex-wife's lawyer is guilty of flagrant malpractice in failing to follow up on these QDROs, and is likely subject to sanctions by the governing Bar Association for violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct. See two more attachments discussing the liability of attorneys under these circumstances. Good luck. Gains, Losses, Ownership Interest and Constructive Trust.pdf 401(k) Tracing Marital Portiion See 3.3.3 & 3.3.4(i).pdf Tracing by DSG Memo.pdf JLG Article - It Ain't Over.pdf Malpractive - Lawyer Liability in QDRO Cases - Willick.pdf

You did not reply to my inquiry about the type of assets in the Plan. On January 3, 2020, I receive statements for the 12-31-19 value of my retirement and investment accounts. What in the world takes 9+ months to value?

The question is out of my area of expertise, but how can it take until October, 2020, to determine a value as of December 31, 2019. Am I missing something? What sort of assets are held by the Plan that take 9 months or more to value? That would result in the Participant losing whatever gains are made from December 31, 2019, through October, 2020, or conversely, the Plan having to pay out more than it should if there is a loss in value from December 31, 2019, through October, 2020, and more than it HAS as of the October 2020 valuation date. This issue was addressed in 2018 at

Nobody on this blog can give you any useful information without the FACTS, as follows: 1. In what state was the QDRO entered? 2. What is the exact name of the Plan? There are 40,000+ pension plans in the USA and it matters if the Plan is sponsored by a private corporation, or by a State, County or municipality, or by a union, or by a a church, or by the Federal government (FERS, CSRS, FSPS, the Military), or by an International organization. They all have different requirements and underlying rules. 3. Date the divorce was entered? 4. What was the exact language of the divorce judgment pertaining to survivor annuity benefits? 5. Date was the QDRO entered? 6. What was the exact language of the QDRO relative to survivor annuity benefits? 7. Date the QDRO was approved by the Plan? 8. What was the exact language of the Plan in correspondence approving the QDRO as it pertained to survivor annuity benefits? 9. Did you husband remarry? If so, what was the date of remarriage? 10. What was the date of your husband's death? Was it before or after his retirement? Was it before or after his remarriage? 11. What exactly did the Plan say in correspondence rejecting your request for survivor annuity benefits? 12. Did you have a lawyer representing you during the divorce? It is unlikely that the Plan would refuse to comply with a QDRO they have approved without a good reason. For example, if it was a Military Retired Pay Division Order dealing with a Military pension and you did not file at DD-2656-10 "deemed election" within 12 months after the divorce (and your ex husband did not file a DD-2656-1 within that time frame,) you lose the survivor annuity benefits. For example, if it was a FERS or CSRS or a Military Plan and you remarried before age 55 and had not been married to your ex-husband for 30 years+, you lose the survivor annuity benefit. For example, if your husband remarried and retired before the QDRO was approved, your husband's new wife would receive and survivor annuity and your rights to a survivor annuity would be permanently lost. For example, if your husband dies before the QDRO was approved, some plans will permit a post mortem (after death) QDRO to be prepared and enforced, and other plans will not. For example, if the QDRO provided for a survivor annuity payable if he dies AFTER his retirement and he dies BEFORE his retirement, then no pre-retirement survivor annuity will be paid because the QDRO didn't provide for it, and no post-retirement retirement annuity will be paid because he died before retirement. My guess is that there is a piece of information that you don't realize is important that may have led to your current situation. Provide more information and we may be able to help and perhaps refer you to an attorney that can help you. And by the way, who are you? The Alternate Payee/Former Spouse, or the attorney for one of the parties? DSG

I think it's a battle worth fighting. You have nothing to lose.

The portion of the JAD you sent refers to a Western Conference of Teamsters Retirement Account. I cannot find that Plan in the Department of Labor database. I did, however, find a WESTERN CONFERENCE OF TEAMSTERS PENSION PLAN. Generally the phrase "retirement account" refers to a defined contribution plan, like a 401(k), where a fixed dollar amount or percentage is transferred to the Alternate Payee at the time of divorce. The phrase "Pension Plan" refers to a defined benefit plan where the Participant retires at a certain age an received a multiyear payout (usually for life) base on his time in service and income history - and there is a survivor annuity available for a former spouse or current spouse. I cannot assume that the court just made a mistake. Maybe the court did not intend to give the a share of the "pension plan" to the Alternate Payee. I took about 30 seconds to find the following websites (assuming this is the correct plan): https://wctpension.org/participants/plan-summary https://wctpension.org/participants/plan-summary/other-information https://www.wctpension.org/forms-documents/plan-forms/instructions-and-explanation-model-qdro-provisions https://www.wctpension.org/forms-documents/plan-forms/model-provisions-qualified-domestic-relations-order and see the attached booklet. Call Mr. Gulia is an attorney in Pennsylvania and he can likely help you. Call him at 215-732-1552. WCTPT_Summary_Plan_Booklet.pdf

SEE MY RESPONSES IN ALL CAPS BOLDED: FIRST - WHAT ARE YOU? CURRENT WIFE I AM GUESSING? SECOND - WORDS MATTER. I CANNOT ANSWER A QUESTION WITHOUT CORRECT FACTUAL INFORMATION. You make clear exact references. But there was NO qdro ever started/completed at the time of the divorce in 2011. The language in the JAD is vague. I WOULDN'T KNOW IF IT'S VAGUE OR NOT SINCE NEITHER YOU NOR YOUR HUSBAND HAS BOTHERED TO SET FORTH THE EXACT LANGUAGE OF THE JAD, SO ANYTHING I MIGHT SAY IS LIKELY JUST AN EDUCATED GUESS. It was included that the ex wife was responsible to complete a qdro and to hire a qdro attorney if needed. She never did. The plan started paying only 50% of retirement to my husband. After 18 months passed , he inquired about the segregated portion but was denied any rights to the other 50% as it was intended for the AP if and when a qdro was received. WHAT ABOUT THE DISABILITY RETIREMENT WHAT YOUR HUSBAND SAYS IS NOT MARITAL PROPERTY IN YOUR STATE? I CANNOT COMMENT ON WHY THE PLAY PUT A FREEZE ON THE EX-WIFE'S SHARE OF THE PLAN BENEFITS UNLESS THEY DETERMINED THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO SO TO PROTECT THEIR OWN BUTT. The plan notified the APs divorce attorney to ask if they planned to complete a qdro. Her divorce attorney attempted to write a qdro himself . After getting this information my husband consulted with a qdro attorney that suggested he should complete the qdro process, as the ex wife and her attorney were negligent (7 years) in completing the qdro. And for the fact that a divorce attorney has no business attempting to write a qdro. My husband has a family law attorney as well as a qdro attorney retained to complete this process. The plan is active in trying to complete this as well , as there has been many bad decisions made on their part. We now have a draft , that includes language that’s conflicting. That gives AP her shared percentage of spouse benefits after participants death. THIS IS A SURVIVOR ANNUITY THAT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AWARDED BY THE JUDGE. AS ABOVE. I WOULD NEED TO SEE THE ACTUAL JAD TO BE SURE. AND YOUR ATTORNEY WOULD HAVE TO CHECK THE LAW OF YOUR STATE TO SEE IF A SURVIVOR ANNUITY IS SUBSUMED INTO AN AWARD OF RETIREMENT BENEFITS....OR WHATEVER THE JAD SAYS. How can we proceed forward and accept this “proposed qdro” when it’s so misconstrued. When my husband questions his qdro attorney about his concerns, he was told he shouldn’t be so greedy. The plan is opening the door for continued issues in this case. Do we stop before signing and head to court ? IF YOU WANT ME TO LOOK AT THE JAD FAX IT TO ME AT 301-947-0501 AND INCLUDE A TELEPHONE NUMBER WHERE I CAN CALL YOU BACK.