RatherBeGolfing

I wouldn't amend, just move it to the line the auditor wants. As a side note, I have one auditor from a large CPA firm that does tons of audits, who insists that the correct line item on the Sch H is "Mutual Funds" rather than "PSA" for a platform type plan. They claim that because then underlying assets in the PSAs are mutual funds, the correct line item is mutual funds rather than PSAs. The first year they audited, we shifted the assets from PSA to mutual funds. All my other similar plans with other auditors use the line for PSA.

Both methods are allowed. See §1.401(a)(9)-5, Q&A-3(b) (2002 regulations) Note that the 1987 and 2001 regulations required the inclusion of amounts attributable to a plan year but deposited after December 31. For more detail see EOB Ch 6, Section IV, Part D, 2.c.

Failure to plan and having less comp at the end of the year is not a mistake of fact. But agree to disagree.

EPCRS 6.06(2) (2) Correction of Excess Allocations. In general, an Excess Allocation is corrected in accordance with the Reduction of Account Balance Correction Method set forth in this paragraph. Under this method, the account balance of an employee who received an Excess Allocation is reduced by the Excess Allocation (adjusted for Earnings). If the Excess Allocation would have been allocated to other employees in the year of the failure had the failure not occurred, then that amount (adjusted for Earnings) is reallocated to those employees in accordance with the plan’s allocation formula. If the improperly allocated amount would not have been allocated to other employees absent the failure, that amount (adjusted for Earnings) is placed in a separate account that is not allocated on behalf of any participant or beneficiary (an unallocated account) established for the purpose of holding Excess Allocations, adjusted for Earnings, to be used to reduce employer contributions (other than elective deferrals) in the current year or succeeding year. While such amounts remain in the unallocated account, the employer is not permitted to make contributions to the plan other than elective deferrals. Excess Allocations that are attributable to elective deferrals or after-tax employee contributions (adjusted for Earnings) must be distributed to the participant. For qualification purposes, an Excess Allocation that is corrected pursuant to this paragraph is disregarded for purposes of §§ 402(g) and 415, the actual deferral percentage test of § 401(k)(3), and the actual contribution percentage test of § 401(m)(2). If an Excess Allocation resulting from a violation of § 415 consists of annual additions attributable to both employer contributions and elective deferrals or after-tax employee contributions, then the correction of the Excess Allocation is completed by first distributing the unmatched employee’s after-tax contributions (adjusted for Earnings) and then the unmatched employee’s elective deferrals (adjusted for Earnings). If any excess remains, and is attributable to either elective deferrals or after-tax employee contributions that are matched, the excess is apportioned first to after-tax employee contributions with the associated matching employer contributions and then to elective deferrals with the associated matching employer contributions. Any matching contribution or nonelective employer contribution (adjusted for Earnings) which constitutes an Excess Allocation is then forfeited and placed in an unallocated account established for the purpose of holding Excess Allocations to be used to reduce employer contributions in the current year and succeeding year. Such unallocated account is adjusted for Earnings. While such amounts remain in the unallocated account, the employer is not permitted to make contributions (other than elective deferrals) to the plan.

§7508A relief has been granted for those affected by Irma. The relief declaration reads in part Treas. Reg. § 301.7508A-1(c)(1)(iii) (iii) Making contributions to a qualified retirement plan (within the meaning of section 4974(c)) under section 219(f)(3), 404(a)(6), 404(h)(1)(B), or 404(m)(2); making distributions under section 408(d)(4); recharacterizing contributions under section 408A(d)(6); or making a rollover under section 402(c), 403(a)(4), 403(b)(8), or 408(d)(3);

Mr Bagwell is correct, it is placed in an unallocated account to be allocated at a later date. You must allocate the funds prior to making any further contributions to the plan. As long as it is an employer contribution, you can use it, so either match or PS would be fine. Since it is an unallocated account rather than forfeiture, you cannot use it for expenses.

Additional qualifying Florida counties added on 9/14 Citrus DeSoto Glades Harde Hendry Hernando Highlands Indian River Lake Marion Martin Okeechobee Osceola Seminole Sumter Volusia

Brevard just got added https://www.fema.gov/disaster/4337

FEMA disaster link IRS grants relief to counties identified for individual assistance by FEMA. As of right now, Brevard is not on the list, but neither is Polk county and they got hit really hard so additional counties will have to be added. Also, under 2017-13, a participant could request a hardship distribution if they or a lineal ascendant or descendant, dependent, or spouse had their principal residence or place of employment in one of the identified counties. You could easily make the argument that a loan would would be counterproductive or add to the hardship, so no, I don't think you need to worry about exhausting loans first.

Thanks Lois! I'll add it to my original post to keep it as up to date as possible

IRS Gives Tax Relief to Victims of Hurricane Irma; Like Harvey, Extension Filers Have Until Jan. 31 to File; Additional Relief Planned Current relief is limited to any area designated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), as qualifying for individual assistance. Right now, that means US Virgin Island, Puerto Rico and some parts of Florida. The scope of the relief will most definitely be broadened to include more Florida counties, but as of right now, the following counties have been designated as qualifying for individual assistance (and therefore tax relief): Brevard (added 9/13) Broward Charlotte Clay Collier Duval Flagler Hillsborough Lee Manatee Miami-Dade Monroe Orange (added 9/13) Palm Beach Pasco (added 9/13) Pinellas Polk (added 9/13) Putnam Sarasota St. Johns St. Lucie (added 9/13) IRS Announcement 2017-13 allows loans and hardship withdrawals for Hurricane Irma victims, similar to relief announced for Hurricane Harvey Useful links FEMA disaster link You can use this link to view FEMA declared disasters by state or tribal government. IRS News Releases You can use this link view updated news releases from the IRS for the month of September IRS Hurricane Irma Page IRS Disaster Tax Relief page Effens Thread on Funding Relief for DB Plans (Notice 2017-49) * Edited to add more information when available

Great to hear you did ok Tom!

Checking in from Apollo Beach / Tampa area. We got very lucky since she turned east just south of us, pushing the eyewall to our east. We escaped a direct hit and stayed on the west side of the storm which is considered the "clean" side. The "dirty" side has stronger wind gusts, more surge, and more tornadic activity. We still had Cat 1 type winds which is enough to cause damage but most homes will be structurally fine. We have some downed trees and some minor roof damage. The roof damage led to some leaks and we will need to pull some drywall in the ceiling and walls and make sure we don't get any mold issues but that is really more of an inconvenience all things considered. We also never lost power which is amazing because it is out in all areas around us. I spoke to some friends in the Jax/St/ Augustine area and they were having strong winds and power outages as recent as an hour ago. I hope everyone is OK, I look forward to hearing good things from all who were/are in Irma's path!

Well it looks like you guys are fairly safe on the east coast. We are still staying put in Tampa. I'm right between evac zone C and D and even on the current track it isn't likely that they will have mandatory evacuation of C or above. I'm staying positive. When this is over we can all have a drink in the bar at Annual and compare pictures of bending trees and water in the streets. Stay safe everyone!

I don't disagree that an AP could a hardship if she meets the requirements. Obviously not my document or concern, but I'm curious how she meets the hardship requirements when she is eligible for a distribution. In reality, what is the difference between the taking $10,000 as a distribution per the QDRO, or $10,000 as a hardship from the segregated account? Withholding requirements?

We are in the 3rd evac zone, just outside the flood zone. My neighbor was in coast guard meetings all day yesterday and as of last night, they are more concerned with wind than floods for my area. If it comes up land it could be a cat 2 when it reaches the Tampa area. We are prepping for the worst and hoping for the best.

We are staying put in Tampa and keeping an eye on the changes. It should start the turn sometime today but most models are going up the center of the state which means both coasts will get hurricane strength winds but hopefully all that land will slow it down. Good luck everyone!

I can't promise it will be on a test, but it is in the study guides

It hasn't changed, still tested as excluding earnings. Do the calculation contributions alone.

Nope. They provide you with the means to maintain your own document. There is a big difference. They do not make sure the document is properly filled out, or that you make timely amendments, or that you keep all necessary documents in a safe place, etc. That is all on you. Trust me, the people who frequent these boards have taken many Vanguard and Fidelity plans through correction programs for this very reason.

The Plan does not prevent AP from taking a distribution, so the hardship question is moot. Even if we came to the conclusion that an AP could take a hardship, wouldn't you fail the immediate and heavy financial need requirement if you have other distributions options? What the AP wants is really irrelevant here since the need can be satisfied without the hardship.

No 411(d)(6) cutback issue with excluding FUTURE participation for a current participant. Any benefit the participant has already accrued is protected, but you can eliminate continued participation. We had a good discussion in this earlier this year in this thread

Wow that is very odd for a 401(k) plan. I guess if I'm in your shoes i would just document every conversation and put it in a CYA file. Im glad none of my clients have found this particular platform

This makes me curious how it is set up with the platform since the PA (commonly the plan sponsor) should make the deposit and it sounds like you are saying the platform wont issue a check to the trustee?

That pretty much sums it up