austin3515 Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 Would anyone be willing to share a set of distribution paperwork for an estate, to be completed by the executor of the estate? Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
MoJo Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 We use the same paperwork we use for all other distributions, and simply require a death certificate and "certificate of appointment" of the executor/administrator to process.
david rigby Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 Well......... An estate can't do a rollover, can it? And (therefore) the 20% withholding rules don't apply, do they? Does the plan need the estate's TIN (different from the deceased's SSN)? I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.
austin3515 Posted June 9, 2017 Author Posted June 9, 2017 Ahhh these are the things I don't want to look up on my own! Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
MoJo Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 On 6/9/2017 at 6:20 PM, david rigby said: Well......... An estate can't do a rollover, can it? And (therefore) the 20% withholding rules don't apply, do they? Does the plan need the estate's TIN (different from the deceased's SSN)? 1) No, an estate can't do a rollover. 2) Correct, 20% withholding doesn't apply 3) Yes, we need a tax ID (estate's TIN) for 1099 purposes. Like I said, we use the same the paperwork - didn't say all of the notices are applicable.
ESOP Guy Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 it is the fact the estate needs its own TIN that is the big issue. Very few people deal with estates large enough to get one and file the related tax returns. The cost of doing this can really take a bite out of the payment and people aren't happy. They aren't happy about no rollover also but if the amount is small enough that isn't too bad. Moral of that story is name a beneficiary always. I know that doesn't help if the person already died and left the money to an estate but maybe the plan sponsor will see this as a reason to help the rest of his people by pushing the forms.
austin3515 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Posted June 12, 2017 In my case we have a TIN - but no one has a "death benefit" form they can share? Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
MoJo Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 52 minutes ago, ESOP Guy said: it is the fact the estate needs its own TIN that is the big issue. Very few people deal with estates large enough to get one and file the related tax returns. The cost of doing this can really take a bite out of the payment and people aren't happy. They aren't happy about no rollover also but if the amount is small enough that isn't too bad. Moral of that story is name a beneficiary always. I know that doesn't help if the person already died and left the money to an estate but maybe the plan sponsor will see this as a reason to help the rest of his people by pushing the forms. In my experience, a TIN is always required for an estate - whether or not there is taxable income/returns that need to be filed. And yes - I agree whole heartedly that naming a beneficiary is a must - as the tax consequences to the beneficiaries of the estate can seriously diminish the value of the distributed assets (and in many cases, the estate is a "pass through" entity - leaving the taxes of hte distribution to the heirs).
TPAJake Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 Sorry Austin, I don't have access to a generic form--Doesn't the recordkeeper have one? Their form will need to be filled out somewhere along the way I'm sure
K2retire Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 Doesn't your document software have a form? austin3515 1
austin3515 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Posted June 12, 2017 K2retire I thought you solved all my problems - they have a spouse form and a non-spouse form but not an estate form. What a drag. This happens to be a pooled plan. I looked at some of the forms for the providers but not has a form specific to an estate. And therefore it's a challenge to sift there all the excruciating minutiae to find the language that applies... Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
TPAJake Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 The non-spouse form sounds like a winner, no? K2retire 1
austin3515 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Posted June 12, 2017 It includes the rollover option. I'll probably end up just editing it to take out the rollover option. Austin Powers, CPA, QPA, ERPA
david rigby Posted June 12, 2017 Posted June 12, 2017 BTW, there are a few references to "estate" in the W-4P instructions. I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.
D Lewis Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 We did this recently where we used the RMD forms from our system. After being generated, we changed some of the words as necessary - like "Reason for Distribution" from "RMD" to "Death Benefit" and where it requests the participant SSN, we changed it to "Trust EIN". This way we got a form to get the needed information and signatures, but didn't have rollover and mandatory withholding options. K2retire 1
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